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Podcast Transcript

Episode 25, Season 1

Building an advice community that his advisers ask for, with Andy Marshall 


Andy Marshall: [00:00:00] How are you going to align your solutions that you provide to my goals, my personal goals? Now, any advisor should be able to easily demonstrate how we do that; frankly, that initial four tier positioning piece does that, and so that’s the ... the c- consumer should ask those questions, ‘cause ultimately it’s like, what clients do you work with, right? What types of solutions do you deploy? Why? What’s your process? What type of outcomes do you get for people? You know, it’s the same thing in reverse, and that’s what a consumer should be asking. An adviser can ... who can, um, answer those and articulate that really well, um, will nine times out of 10 win that client.

Fraser Jack: [00:00:46] Hello, and welcome to the Goals Based Advice Podcast, where I have conversations with pioneers of the new world of financial advice. I’m your host Fraser Jack, I want to thank you so much for tuning in today, and for your feedback and reviews, I do love getting them. If you’re enjoying this podcast, please share it with your friends or colleagues, and leave me a review on iTunes or whatever platform you access this podcast. I’d also like to thank our supporting partner, Advice Intelligence, for powering this podcast. You can book a demo directly from the website at adviceintelligence.com.

Fraser Jack: [00:01:16] In this episode, I chat with Andy Marshall, who facilitates the IOOF Alliances Advice Community, or self licensed advice practices, and he’s just finished his second book and he gives away a few of his secrets from the book. After being an advisor himself and spending many years helping advisors build better businesses, Andy is a wealth of knowledge. We cover many aspects of pains and opportunities advisers are seeing and feeling at this time. This episode is jam-packed with great information and tips for advisors. Let’s get straight into it now.

Fraser Jack: [00:01:54] Welcome to the show Andy.

Andy Marshall: [00:01:56] Hey Fraser, how are you?

Fraser Jack: [00:01:57] I’m very well mate, how are you?

Andy Marshall: [00:01:59] Yeah, I’m really well, I’m really well. I c- can’t believe it’s one February already, but ...

Fraser Jack: [00:02:04] Yeah, happy- happy new year, so I ... can you still say Happy New Year in February, is that allowed?

Andy Marshall: [00:02:09] I think it’s allowed, if I haven’t seen you before then, I think, um, it’s- it’s allowed, considering I’m already taking appointments into March, there’s some people I’m not gonna see for a while now, I’ll still be saying Happy New Year (laughs).

Fraser Jack: [00:02:19] Yeah, exactly right (laughs). Now tell me, uh, tell ... do you wanna introduce yourself to the, uh, to the listeners?

Andy Marshall: [00:02:25] Yeah. Um, look I’m Andy Marshall and- and- and presently I run a community, a facilitated community called Alliances which is self licensed advisors, so boutique AFSLs. Typically they’re two to five hours, um, we’ve got a lot of husband and wife teams, got some bigger businesses as well and that community is 250 advisers strong.

Andy Marshall: [00:02:49] So it’s growing and it’s building, obviously there’s an interest in, uh, people getting their own license and we certainly ... and I certainly help them, support them along that way, and this is member directed. It’s a lot of fun, because everything that we deliver is- is based on what the members want, and so you do find that it, you know, 75% of the things that we actually do, uh, focused on compliance interpretation, advice process and efficiency, and- and growth. So for me, they’re- they’re all interesting and- and challenging, but spaces that there’s an opportunity.

Fraser Jack: [00:03:26] You- you get to see obviously a lot of businesses and talk to a lot of advisers and find out what their pains are and what ... and what they’re doing about it. Uh, before we go there though I just wanted to, uh, get a bit of a background on you. How did you get to where you are now and just kind of run us through your journey towards now?

Andy Marshall: [00:03:40] Sure. It- it definitely wasn’t a route that was ... that was planned. Uh, t’s been, um, I’ve been the accidental tourist, um, in many an incarnations of career. I never really wanted to get into financial advice, I wanted to be an analyst and there was a process that I went through speaking to a lot of fund managers and going through that journey and, uh, and one of them, um, said, “I actually think you’re pretty good with people,” which I- I laughed at, “Perhaps have you ever considered being an advisor?”

Andy Marshall: [00:04:11] And I hadn’t, I hadn’t done it but, um, a month later I was an advisor. So it- it was a strange, um, change in direction and course, and as I was ... I became an advisor in the, um, in the times when I asked my area manager, so that might give people a clue to what type of organization I ended up at, my area manager I said to them, “Well, where will I find my clients?”

Andy Marshall: [00:04:39] And he took me to a window which was overlooking greater metropolitan Melbourne and he just gestured his arm across the horizon and said, “There are your clients.” So that was my introduction to financial advice (laughs).

Fraser Jack: [00:04:51] It’s funny. It, uh, kind of reminds me of my introduction to financial advice. It’s pretty much the same thing, you know, there’s a ... there’s a phone book, or there’s a ... there’s a whole lot of people out there, go and talk to people.

Andy Marshall: [00:05:02] Yeah, absolutely and I think, you know, you did not front up on a Monday ... well, actually on a Friday ‘cause that’s when you had to check in, um, without a full diary of next week, and a full diary was 15 to 20 appointments. Um, so when you factor that in how many calls you had to actually make during the course of the week, um, uh, for- for me now when I look at some of the- the newer advisors and maybe they’re now doing three, four appointments a week, I’m like, “How are you even surviving (laughs)?” Um, it’s a different world.

Fraser Jack: [00:05:36] Yeah, a completely different world actually. Um, um, and- and almost 180 degree change in that direction since I can ... when I first started, and I’m ... and I’m assuming the same with you, uh, it was pretty much a sales based organization. It was product to be distributed by larger organizations, it’s fair to say that, um, most advisors were out there, had a product and, um, looking for humans to fit the product, as opposed to where we are now where we have humans and are looking to help those humans by, uh, if needed, um, finding them- them a product.

Andy Marshall: [00:06:05] I- I totally agree with you, and I was only talking about this yesterday with a business that I was in there actually doing some advice engagement, uh, workshops with them in terms of, uh, client conversations et cetera, and I was talking about the old customer advice record, you know, I- I loved the carbonized paper. I mean it didn’t get ... as- as simple as that was, there was kind of a beauty in its simplicity, because it ultimately ended up, yeah, you’re right Fraser, there was a product that we fit people into, but the discussion around how this was gonna fit their needs was really rich.

Andy Marshall: [00:06:40] Um, if you’re doing it properly, and you’re invariably doing it at their kitchen table. Uh, s- ... what you write down on that customer advice record, you were limited for space so you couldn’t put a lot in there, but it- it- it didn’t get an- any more difficult than that. Um, however, you know, there was ... for me looking back on it now, you know, there’s so many flaws in- in that proposition, um, which, you know, I’m really pleased to see, um, I’m gonna use this term, modern advisors, and that’s just a- a mindset I’ve really addressed and come leaps and bounds and now you actually are really seeing a connection between the solutions that are offered and- and the client conversation.

Fraser Jack: [00:07:19] Yeah, couldn’t agree more that it’s very, very different, a different world. But tell me ... take me back, so you’re ... and how long were you an adviser for?

Andy Marshall: [00:07:25] Uh, I was ... look, ultimately only an advisor for about seven or eight years in different, um, different businesses, ultimately my own, well, partnership and there was never any, um, desire to get out of advice at that time. I had in 2005, ‘06, put in a lifestyle model if you like, so we were very much, um, looking at a- aspects of your life, so what are the key areas of your life and let’s plan everything around that.

Andy Marshall: [00:08:00] So yeah, we’ve got superannuation, yeah, we’ve got estate planning and insurance, but unless this is gonna make a difference to your overall happiness, it- it- it ... all that’s for naught, so let’s assess that, you know, how do you feel about health, wellbeing, um, your personal growth and development, your family, your relationship? So we were doing a lot of that questioning, or I was, I was doing a lot of that questioning and was just getting essays back.

Andy Marshall: [00:08:26] Um, so I was very much wanting to continue that- that- that process. Um, look, the partnership breakup in terms of, um, the other arm of the business, which was property and mortgages, um, different viewpoints in terms of that model versus, at that point in time, pretty high commission agri model, and I wanted really nothing to do at that, and so ultimately I made sure my clients found all nice safe happy homes and, um, ended up in the world of product, which was AXA at the time.

Fraser Jack: [00:09:03] Yeah, now when you, um ... that was obviously a pretty tricky decision to make and a hard call and all those sorts of things, a- a- are you happy with what you did, and would you ... if you did it again, would there be it be any different?

Andy Marshall: [00:09:15] Uh, it’s ... that’s a really good question because, you know, you go back to that sliding doors moment quite a lot and, you know, the thing that stays with me, uh, most vividly was on the day that it was really happening, I drove up the driveway and my son at the time was three months old and my- my wife at the time was really struggling with it, and she said to me as I got out of the car, “What are you gonna do?”

Andy Marshall: [00:09:41] And I’m like, “Oh, easy I’ve, you know, I’ve got plenty of friends who are advisors. I can stick my shingle up against them, we can share expenses et cetera, et cetera, continue on. No- no need to panic everything’s gonna change. Nothing will change.” And she looked at me and said, “Could you find something easier to do, because I’m not coping here at home?” And it was really interesting, “Can you find something easier?” because when you’re doing advice you live, breathe every moment every day of it.

Andy Marshall: [00:10:06] You’re always with your clients. I- I’d see clients on Good Friday, good Catholic boy, my mum would be rolling over but, you know, that’s what you did. And so you lived and breathed it and, you know, the number of hours that I was putting into advice, you know, if you assess my business, completely inefficient, high quality satisfaction from clients, the actual process of trying to deliver that type of advice proposition, with no tools or systems to actually implement it back in the day, it was intensive ... labor intensive.

Andy Marshall: [00:10:36] So, you know, she n- needed a circuit breaker. Um, the rationale that I put forward to why that sat well with me was that even, uh, in ... on my best day, my best year, there was a limitation to how many people I could help in the course of a year, versus as a product provider, as a BDM, I could potentially help equal number of advisers who could then help all these clients, so the- the effect could be I might impact 300 people during the course of the year, 100 absolutely solid core clients and the others, but if I was able to impact those numbers with advisers and then they could impact their clients then I have a- a greater reach and the- the whole greater good of advice for more Australians was something that I really hung on to for a very long time, as my rationale was saying, “This is actually the right thing to do.”

Fraser Jack: [00:11:31] Yeah, I- I certainly resonate with that. Now- now tell me though, when you had to make that decision though to- to sort of call it quits or- or pull up or- or make a major change in your business, obviously it sounds like you’re working a lot in the business, uh, less on the business and- and that’s probably a good lesson that you’ve (laughs) tau- ... lea- learned along the way, but, um, when you ... when you had to make that decision, what ... how did you do it, what did you go through, and- and what sort of happened after you made the decision?

Andy Marshall: [00:11:55] I tend to do things very quickly (laughs) so, you know, once someone suggested you- you need to be looking at an alternative, the immediate thought was, “What about my clients? How do I protect and- and look after these clients?” So this was a matter of matching them up with advisers that I knew in- in the profession, who I knew would really look after these clients, that these clients would be suited to their ways and methods, so it was really a few meetings about how is this gonna work, which clients are going to go where et cetera.

Andy Marshall: [00:12:28] The clients are going to be happy with that as well, um, and ultimately then, uh, okay I don’t have this business anymore, how am I paying bills? And so it was really just using contacts in the industry that within two weeks I was ... I was working as a BDM. So, you know, it all happened very quickly so that, look, I gotta tell you, there was no secret sauce or process around this. I think your point about working, um, on ... in the business and not working on it was ... is- is rightly made.

Andy Marshall: [00:13:00] You know, the E-myth is at that time was there, and that was my kind of Bible, so I was cognizant of all of this, but the day-to-day of running the business as a sole practitioner, it- it just didn’t lend itself. I knew and that- that classic part of the E-myth where which part of ... are you the CEO of marketing of, um, the product, of technical? I mean I- I was everything, um, and I think the realization at that point in time I guess, um, really brought to the fore by my wife’s comment was, yeah, I can’t be everything here.

Andy Marshall: [00:13:33] There’s- there’s got to be ... there’s got to be a better way to have the passion for what I’m doing, um, and at that point in time the only solution I saw was, well let’s dissolve the business, let’s make sure the clients have got a great home, and let’s move on. In hindsight, you know, yeah, I’d be thinking what structures and systems and processes can I put in place as a collective of advisors?

Andy Marshall: [00:13:57] And we probably ... I- I look back and go, you know, it’s probably a great opportunity to join forces with two or three advisors and build something, um, with that kind of philosophy that I had and that they shared, but hadn’t implemented. We could have built something really special, um, back then and we’re talking 2006, 2007. So it could have been amazing.

Fraser Jack: [00:14:18] So you’ve obviously, um, spent a lot of time with advisors and their businesses, uh, over the years and seen a lot of change and- and helped those advisers with a lot of change. What’s sort of some of the main changes you’ve seen along the way?

Andy Marshall: [00:14:31] It’s a really good question, ‘cause there’s been so many of them (laughs). Um, I think that shift from, um, to more dynamic client conversations and goals conversation. There’s always been this frustration with, you know, I’m having these richness ... rich discussions, but the process of advice, um, is quite formulaic and- and it comes down to this, from a client’s perspective, if you look at this from a client’s perspective, you go, “Okay, we’ve gone in and seen someone, great- great people, that was all good, gave them a bunch of stuff and now we’ve been told an SOA’s coming.”

Andy Marshall: [00:15:08] And it’s ... then you get an SOA and the template’s dependent on where you were working and what sort of regime you’re under, were pretty generic and boring. And so I think the clients’ really struggled, from clients’ I’ve interviewed. So I’ve interviewed a lot of clients’ and they said, “Well, how does this ... I got this, I saw these people and it was really good, and then I got this, and there’s like this massive disconnect. I don’t see how this attaches to what I really want.”

Andy Marshall: [00:15:37] Interestingly though, those clients would still say, “And actually, I don’t really know what I want, “ um, because the questioning techniques of the adviser hadn’t actually drawn that out. And so, you know, I always point to the goals section of the SOA where it says something like, uh, you know, “You want to invest your super for whatever term,” and it talks very product. It’s very black-and-white financial stuff in the old stylist of ways, but even in the new templates, that’s still the way, and you’ve lost all the richness.

Andy Marshall: [00:16:05] So I think the main challenge has been about engagement, how do I keep this client? And a lot of businesses a lot of advisors say, “It’s great, every client comes in and they’re engaged, they love us, and they always take care of us, and they ... and they do business with us.” It’s the ongoing, how do I keep them engaged, uh, uh, on a 10-year journey? I- I mean how do I do that? And I always come back to, yeah, but what did we set at the start? What was the foundation around the discussion? Which for me always has to be about you- you need to get into the values of the client and why they’ve been doing this.

Andy Marshall: [00:16:41] What is it, the hopes and dreams that they have, and if you can document that and give that life in your advice process, then that just flows. And so I think there’s a challenge there. There’s challenge- challenges on ... the typical challenges on technology, on managing compliance and interpreting compliance, doing the right thing the ... and- and being able to demonstrate that you’re doing the right thing in an efficient manner, are- are the typical challenges.

Andy Marshall: [00:17:08] Oh, then of course that ... we’ve got to see some clients as well, so it’s the time management aspect of like I’m being asked to do all this stuff, and it’s really interesting when you draw up the- the value transfer from a business to a- a client, the perceptions are really there so much stuff happening in advise business that the client really doesn’t care about, but you’ve got to do it, and that’s where a huge chunk of your time as an advisor is spent, and the client only wants that aspect. That’s the important stuff.

Andy Marshall: [00:17:40] So, you know, this whole balance between, well it costs me this much to deliver this- this advice, there’s a lot of stuff the client doesn’t see and potentially doesn’t care about.

Fraser Jack: [00:17:50] Yeah, it’s- it’s- it’s a really tricky situation isn’t it, because at the moment, uh, you know, the cost of providing advice is- is really high and getting higher, the- the cost to serve, the cost to help, um, it’s- it’s- it’s ... there’s more and more pressure coming on to the advisors at the moment around, uh, you know, from a compliance point of view, from all the stuff that’s going on, from education standards, you name it, um, pushing the cost of advice up, and consumers in a way feel like ... it feels to me like the consumers in the way ...uh, sorry in a way are get ... are getting the raw end of the ... in the bargaining.

Andy Marshall: [00:18:22] Yeah, I- I think a lot of people are- are priced out of advice but, you know, the- the attitudes of consumers when- when you do speak to them about advice, if they’ve had an advice experience, um, depending on where they’ve had that experience, they’re underwhelmed, uh, which is really interesting when you think about it, because when you stand in a room of advisors as I do a lot, they have happy engaged clients.

Andy Marshall: [00:18:47] So who are these people, I know maybe that’s because I’m dealing in the IFA space and they- they talk to us about how happy ... and I know, we’ve done the client surveys on it, you know, you get amazing Net Promoter scores. So for the o- ... these other people, which let’s face it, is 80% of the population in the working population, they’re unhappy with advice or had a bad experience off it, or don’t perceive they can afford advice et cetera.

Andy Marshall: [00:19:11] Um, there’s the challenge, because it’s like well, they actually need the advice, we need to make it accessible for them, but there’s an imbalance between producing a piece of advice cost so much, it’s not accessible. So, you know, that’s ... ‘cause everyone’s talked about all the different mechanisms you can use to make advice more accessible and affordable, um, but yet we’re in a climate of where the costs to provide advice are incredibly high.

Fraser Jack: [00:19:38] Yeah, it seems to me like the- the really good advisors are ones that have got great relationship skills can- can, um, can form a- amazing relationships with their clients, can ask the- the- the tricky questions, the hard questions, get really honed in on- on the goals and understanding what the clients are ... uh, you know, makes them tick, uh, their values and- and what they want to achieve, um, but the- the hurdle at the moment is ... tends to be the- the old traditional process that we’ve been providing advice, and, um, and- and that whether that’s a- a perception of, you know, not- not letting the client know what the process is going to be, but the- the process tends to be, uh, underwhelming for the consumer and hard for the advisor.

Andy Marshall: [00:20:16] Yeah, but by ... but by the same token, I’ve seen some amazing process and businesses, um, particularly of late and, you know, maybe that has a little bit to do with the technology stack that they’ve started to build, where there’s really a dynamic front-end engagement that has, you know, maybe a different philosophy and different way of speaking and positioning it with the client, but then also has the tools to deliver it.

Andy Marshall: [00:20:44] And then that comes into a really good CIB- .... CRM and- and robust CRM that the cl- ... the adviser and client can engage with, and so there’s a lot of efficiency there. Even just ... so that’s great tick, tick, tick. N- now this is really accessible, but then the actual production of the piece of advice is where people have really struggled if you look at the incumbent systems that are out there, and so then- then the cost goes up.

Andy Marshall: [00:21:08] Um, but then you look at those businesses that ... those propositions, um, for the ones that I’m working with, they- they’re really at the professional end of- of- of the client in terms if you wanted to make an assumption there about, you know, how much has been charged for that piece of advice, you know, it’s- it’s not the small scale advice piece. So, you know, I look at another raft of advisors who are dealing in the, uh, the Gen Y space, you know, it’s- it’s more accessible, um, yeah, I’m yet to see how ... the longevity of that model, but it- it- it s- ... it seems to be, um, more easy to access, more modular.

Andy Marshall: [00:21:48] Um, so, you know, there are some great solutions out there. There’s people delivering some great stuff out there, um, through about that built.

Fraser Jack: [00:21:56] Yeah, it seems to me and obviously you’re seeing it in the ... in the, uh, in the marketplace and that is really around the idea of, um, putting some robust processes in place around every single little part of the business to make sure that you- you’re trying to squeeze the efficiency out of every little corner.

Andy Marshall: [00:22:11] Yeah, I think, you know, this ... and I said it at the beginning, their advice process efficiency is absolutely in the top three for the businesses that I’m working with and, you know, that covers all manner of bills in there, that bucket, because that’s technology, but it’s also the engagement with the ... with the con- ... the client, the perspective client and- and the ongoing client is, how do we do that efficiently but personalized?

Andy Marshall: [00:22:35] So there’s that ... this, um, mass personalization, um, movement going on, um, which then technology is certainly a- a supporter off if- if- if used properly, and I think there’s a realization now that there is not one s- ... there is no silver bullet on this, you have to define what it is ... is your proposition that you want and build around that, and that is far easier if you’re in an ecosystem as an adviser that the systems and tools you use is not dictated to you.

Fraser Jack: [00:23:07] Yeah, no, uh, all of those things, uh, that you’re talking about is the client engagement scenario and then how- how does the advisor engage with their client and- and- and help their client? Tell me, you’ve written a book about this, you wrote a couple books actually, um, what are some of the tips around client engagement that you speak to your, uh, advisers about and- and- and maybe, uh, you can give away some of your book, uh, book highlights?

Andy Marshall: [00:23:29] Look and- and ... look, the first book which is very much around advice engagement, um, that came out of a whole range of conversations with advisers who were, um, hitting up a brick wall in terms of the old process, and so the- the general message of that book was that people, generally consumers, are pretty poor at planning and the way that they think psychologically about money doesn’t neatly fit into ... and the way they make decisions, doesn’t neatly fit into the financial advice process, the classical six steps.

Andy Marshall: [00:24:04] So the challenge then for the advisor without, uh, dropping those six steps ‘cause that in most situations is the compliance steps that your dealer group or your a AFSL wants you to- to use, is how do you transform those steps into something different and, uh, really all I did was turn the- the steps around and just say, “Okay, well your first sort of three, uh, points is about transforming them from disengaged with their financial wellbeing to engage, and that is very much about a conversation about why this is important.”

Andy Marshall: [00:24:40] And so therefore it’s ... it is a goals a true goals discussion, so they actually can see that, okay, the financial fundamentals here of cash flow, wealth planning and contingency are actually fundamental to supporting these life goals I have, and once you get ... you- you can have that discussion, which classically was the goals identification discussion, once you have that discussion at that sort of level, then you’re starting then getting moving into an understanding.

Andy Marshall: [00:25:11] So they’re starting to understand why this is really important, they’re starting to get engaged with it, so by the time you do an education process they’re actually starting to take ownership. So as opposed to the classical six steps, the steps that are in the book that I wrote, deal with the psychology of the interaction. Doesn’t change the financial planning process, you’re still doing the same stuff, but it changes the conversation about how you position everything.

Andy Marshall: [00:25:36] So that was really what that was all about, um, that book, um, and- and I talk a little bit about, um, the process of uncovering, what are the great questions to uncover those goals and I- I sort of based this all on, well, what- what’s the client’s wisdom on things and wisdom, yeah, but it could be age, but actually the- the higher percentages are around, um, their life experience, their personality traits, um, their crystallized intelligence, and their social intelligence.

Andy Marshall: [00:26:05] And there’s some fantastic questions that are not cheesy, that are not the old way that I was taught, um, doing financial needs master et cetera. It’s just a very natural, for any person that’s curious about other people, which is just about every advisor, that could ... they could easily deploy in that situation. So that was very much about the first book. Um, so it was very much saying, “Okay, that’s the advice process, but how do we make it relevant?”

Fraser Jack: [00:26:31] Yeah, I- I like the way you’re sort of starting with your- your ... the consumer or the client’s, uh, money psychology, uh, you know, behavioral finance type zone, and then, um, but are you really designing the questions around that, or is- is that what you’re saying? So your- your questions change depending on the client?

Andy Marshall: [00:26:47] Yeah, I think that the questions that you do ask a client, you can ... I think you can have a standard set of questions, but you as the advisor, yeah, maybe change the sequence of the questions, but fundamentally what doesn’t change is- is your positioning to that client about the process that we’re going to go through, why it actually works and why it’s important, and I’ve been, in that book and- and subsequent to that, encouraging people to ... ‘cause everyone works on their CVP, which, you know, I hate.

Andy Marshall: [00:27:14] Like I can’t stand I. Um, you ... rather, uh, it’s a positioning statement ‘cause a lot ... a lot of CVPs don’t say anything about the client, but ultimately if- if an advisor can say, “Okay, the types of clients we work with are ...” and usually position it as, exactly like you, and this is the type, so and this is how they feel about their financial situation, so you’re getting that peer connection, peer benchmarking.

Andy Marshall: [00:27:37] So the solutions we put in place look like this, the process we undertake is this, and these are our results and outcomes we have. Now I’ve structured that sequence, um, in terms of exactly how you can do that and fill that in, and the reason that actually works is each ... it’s four tier- tiers, and it works because each one of those tiers, um, is aligned to typical personality profiles.

Andy Marshall: [00:28:03] So you’ve got people who, um, want the detail, you’ve got a bit in there for them, the people who want the big picture you’ve got in there, the people who want to bond with your solution, that’s in there as well, and the emotional stuff. So in 10 seconds 20 seconds, saying the types of clients we work with are like this, the s- ... the needs they have is this, um, the solutions we enact for them look like this, the process looks like, this outcomes are this, and this is how people feel as a result.

Andy Marshall: [00:28:34] That tick, tick, tick on all the different t- types of personality conversations you want to have, um, and it... you’ve done it in- in 20 seconds, and that gets a buy-in, and then the subsequent questions you ask about the discovery, you can ebb and flow depending how in the, conversation, but essentially I’ve designed it like a kind of a wheel that you go around from life experience to, um, personality and external interests apart from that life experience, through to social connections, through to crystallized intelligence, what they actually understand about investments as an example.

Andy Marshall: [00:29:07] You just go around that wheel, which means you can go in any direction or any hub that you wanna go as the conversation flows, and [inaudible 00:29:15] ... you’ve got a really deep understanding of the client.

Fraser Jack: [00:29:18] Nice, and- and, uh, so if you ... if you were the advisor and I’m the client, uh, how long would we spend on that, and then ... or a typical or a new advice process?

Andy Marshall: [00:29:28] Yeah, from having done it myself and also, you know, having, um, seen other people do it just as well or have people who’ve been through a program that I’ve run in and- and started doing it, you know, that- that conversation, um, of discovery, whatever you wanna call it is, you know, typically 90 minutes, um, which is a big investment, but tell you what, it’s a lot better than filling out a fact find.

Andy Marshall: [00:29:54] Um, it’s- it’s more dynamic and really cements the relationship, because by the end of that, you’ve talked ... you’ve talked no product solutions, um, specific to them, but they get that you know them. They walk away and the clients that we’ve interviewed thereafter say, “I get a feeling they- they really know me, they really understand me, they really know me, and we’ve discovered things about ourselves that, you know, were- were there, but we weren’t ... we weren’t at the forefront of our minds, and this has been brought out.”

Andy Marshall: [00:30:26] ‘Cause particularly when you question them about, you know, the 11 key life areas as well, the clarity of priority comes to the fore and these clients now know that, okay, we’re just ... we’re not just rolling over some superannuation, we’re actually planning this, and the psychological benefits of that are incredible and it carries through for the entire advice process right up until the SOA, um presentation.

Fraser Jack: [00:30:53] Yeah, it- it sounds like, uh, an amazing process. Te- ... what about s- ... what about, um, the like, you know, clients ... getting clients in it and po- posit- positioning them for this process as opposed to just sort of, um, them coming and wanting something immediately and, um, a quick cure if you like?

Andy Marshall: [00:31:11] So you m- meaning that if someone was just like, “Here, I want to [inaudible 00:31:15] my super or versus, “No, no, actually it’s not what we do. This ... we go through this process?”

Fraser Jack: [00:31:20] Yeah.

Andy Marshall: [00:31:21] Yeah, yeah.

Fraser Jack: [00:31:21] They position ... they position their client for this, you know, 90 minute session.

Andy Marshall: [00:31:25] Yeah, um, that can be a tough one depending on ... ‘cause either ... when you’re- you’re a freshie, that’s great, this is the way you do things. Um, if you’re trying to position it and change it in a business, it’s a little bit harder, particularly if people have experienced your old way of doing things. Um, I think, you know, someone who- who ... to do it the best, you know, was someone who used to work in, or- or that still does insurance, and if you rang up for a quote, he’d give you a quote, versus he changed saying, “Actually no, we- we don’t give out quotes. This is what we do, this is our process, and this is why.”

Andy Marshall: [00:32:00] Um, so it comes back down to that original positioning piece, or the type of business that you ... we run does this, we work with these people, and we have a certain process and this is why, ‘cause we know the process works. It will take you 90 minutes, um, you will need to have s- ... the willingness to discuss these certain aspects and how that fits into this financial outcome that you want, um, which means that not everyone’s gonna buy into that, so you’ve got to be prepared for that.

Fraser Jack: [00:32:32] Yep. Now off the back of it, so I really like the idea of, um, scoping the advice, obviously then b- back to their values and their goals and their aspirations, uh, as opposed to how we sort of scope now or have done in the past, we really scope for a particular strategy or scope for a particular product.

Andy Marshall: [00:32:52] Yeah, I, um (laughs) if you go back to the days that, you know, when I first started, you know, you were, “How’s this person gonna fit into this product that I’ve got, ‘cause this is all I got in the kit bag, maybe three or four?” Versus now, I always look at it going, “How are you going to feel walking away having implemented my advice?” And what I actually want you to feel is exhilarated and- and happy because you’ve gone ... I’ve taken a step towards achieving these aspirations, and those aspirations aren’t I rolled over my super tick.

Andy Marshall: [00:33:30] It’s like, “Wow, I am ... I’m planning for my family or planning for myself.” I’m- I’m gonna have that feeling that- that- that sense of relief that I’ve actually done something here, and that- that- that’s a- a psychological process, environmental mastery, um, how do I ... how do you start positioning it with the values? You’ve got to ti- ... and you got understand what- what, um, is important in the client’s life and, you know, I know we’ve all been on training courses and, you know, yeah, why don’t you ask the question, “What’s important about the money to you?”

Andy Marshall: [00:34:03] I’ve never asked that question. I couldn’t ever imagine myself asking that question, um, ‘cause it just sounds so cheesy, versus, you know, “How did you get here? Like, you know, you’re in my office you wanna talk about your super, you wanna talk about the investments. Talk to me about how you got to this actual point in time? Let’s start potentially with your job. Okay, let’s talk about that.”

Andy Marshall:00:34:26I used to love talking about what ... the why or, you know, why is all this important for you anyway? What’s this going to do? And ultimately lead into the what did you learn about money? What do you know about money? What is it ... what does ... who taught you your lessons about money? What was the first earliest recollection about money and its value?

Andy Marshall:00:34:47And that for me was the killer conversation, ‘cause then I’d learn stuff when they were eight years old, eight to 11, which was the formative years of money, if not earlier, about what their life experience was around that and consequently that shaped everything right through to where they are now. And I think once you get that question out, you understand that, then they’re willing to talk about how they feel about their home, their relationship, their personal growth, their job, you know, what’s going to change in all of those areas, and in a perfect world what would they like to have? And then we can start deploying resources to that, which is cash flow.

Fraser Jack: [00:35:27] Yeah, it’s such a big part of it, the psychology and the ... and the coaching, uh, be- ... prior to the advice, isn’t it?

Andy Marshall: [00:35:33] Yeah, I ... and must’ve ... uh, look, I’ve got to be honest, I- I think it’s the fun bit, because the ... when you know all of that about a client, then the solutions that you deploy and- and, yeah, that- that’s investment in platform and that’s insurance policy and estate plan, whatever it is, ‘cause that’s the stuff we’re- we’re also good at, you- you have the connection with why that’s going to make a difference to that client, and so you get to celebrate it with them about that achievement, um, process and- and when you see that and the penny drop with them about, yeah, this is so good, that’s like the best feeling as an advisor I think, is that, um, you know they’re on the journey, um, you’ve been able to guide them there, but they’re taking the actions, with your guidance, to do that.

Andy Marshall: [00:36:21] And it’s great, they feel better about themselves, they- they feel fantastic about you (laughs), um, and they- they walk away saying, you know, “Andy, our advisor, just gets us.Hhe just knows us, he’s sorted out all our stuff, and we’re really positive about the future.” Now that’s a referral, that’s when that if ... because that- that- that’s easy to say to someone, “We went and saw Andy, it was ... it was awesome.” Um, versus, “Oh, yeah, he does some insurance. I got my insurance guy.” Like, “Okay, all right.” “He’s gonna sell me a policy.” “Okay, terrific.”

Fraser Jack: [00:36:58] I agreed it definitely the fun bit, and- and especially from, uh, the guy that was wanted- wanted to be an analyst, that’s definitely the fun bit. Um, now you work a lot with ad- advice practices and- and businesses, uh, and as we mentioned before, a lot of work helping them work on their business, um, whilst they’re busily trying to work in the business. You mention before time management, what tips to give to businesses around time management?

Andy Marshall: [00:37:22] Oh, great one. Oh, you need- ... you need to understand your process. I think most people are saying, “I struggle for time, I don’t have time, and I’m too busy and I’m working 65, 70 plus hours a week. I can’t come to that session, Andy, that you’re running on time management, ‘cause I don’t have time.”

Andy Marshall: [00:37:38] Is ... well you ... what- what on earth is your process? What- what’s the process here? And who is performing the functions in your business? So ... and everyone’s done it, everyone in the industry has had someone come into their office to try and map out their advice process and- and highlighted, you know, who’s- who’s doing the bits and pieces they shouldn’t be doing, what ... and what can we outsource?

Andy Marshall: [00:38:01] So when you’re in the nirvana of it, you can go, “Okay, we could be delegating this here, here, here, and here. You should only be involved in these, uh, moments. We should block out, diarize an ideal week for you, and make sure the processes support that.” That’s great when you’ve got support staff. Fantastic ‘cause you can delegate that way. When it’s just you, it’s a little bit harder, but you’ve got to design those processes around what does an ideal work week look like, and I’m big on prioritizing, y, but what are the personal things that you need to do in that ideal week as well, and they- they actually come first.

Andy Marshall: [00:38:36] Of dropping the kids to school, picking them up, going to the kids’ ... you- you’ve got to prop those in first, ‘cause that’s all for mental wellbeing. Um, so for the time management, understand your process. Understand your process, understand what are the things that you should not be doing, what can you outsource, um, and what could you potentially deploy a solution for, um, whether that’s technology efficiencies or, um, platform efficiencies or what have you, or just even out- outsourcing to administration.

Andy Marshall: [00:39:07] Um, I see a lot of advisers doing a lot of ad- administration, so understand work with someone on your process and be really ruthless about it, um, the same with like, you know, the big thing at the moment, the big trend of course is, um, your storage or decluttering. You’ve got to do that with your business and your business process in delivering advice and, you know, this comes down to fundamental philosophies about how you run your advice business as well, because what I am seeing in a shift for time efficiencies which create more time for the advisor to live a life, and more time in front of clients, is should I be constructing my own portfolios?

Andy Marshall: [00:39:47] It’s one of the hurdles, what’s my investment philosophy here? Am I doing this better than someone else? Like have I got the expertise, the skill, the time to do that when I’m trying to see clients and run a business as well? Like, I mean, does that make any sense in your proposition? You know, that’s just one example of time that is potentially wasted. Now different of course if that’s your value proposition and you really truly believe that that’s what you do, that’s okay when you’ve got a different model, but, you know, there’s anything from there to the way you produce an SOA, to the way you conduct your meetings, um, the way you gather data, the way you input data, when you break it all down you see that there’s enormous amounts of time lost. I won’t say wasted, but lost. Um, leakage of time in a ... in a business.

Fraser Jack: [00:40:33 ]Yeah, I lo- ... I love the idea of decluttering, and I also like the conversation around, you know, paying yourself first and I guess paying yourself first on ... in- in your diary.

Andy Marshall: [00:40:42] Yeah, uh, you know, um, look, when I was managing people (laughs), um, I remember telling the st- ... the team, you know, “I want you all to pick an activity during the week that is really gonna actually enhance and make you feel better about yourself, “ and- and a couple of the team said, “Well, we would love to do this Wednesday yoga class at one of the local gyms.” I was like, “Great, book it in.”

Andy Marshall: [00:41:06] And they go, “Yeah, but if we do the class and then we have to have showers and blah, blah, blah ...” and I’m like, “Yeah, it’s a couple of hours. Go and do it. Like why would you not do that, ‘cause you’re gonna come back into work feeling refreshed and better, you’re looking forward to it, you get you’re actually more efficient up to the point, you go and have this wonderful thing, you come back, you’re really grateful to me for letting you do it, you- you end up more productive.”

Andy Marshall: [00:41:28] Um, and so, you know, I- I think you should put in those things, what makes you happy during the week, what could make you happy, and, um, factor a couple of those things in during the course of the week. Don’t just leave them for the weekends when you’re exhausted, you know, put it in there when you’ve got your spike in energy.

Fraser Jack: [00:41:46] Hmm, good tips. Thank you. Now what do you see as some of the, um, the pains that advi- ... what would be the top three, for example, pains that you’re coming across with advisers and their practices at the moment?

Andy Marshall: [00:41:59] Well, at the moment, um, and this will apply for everyone, um, but particularly now in- in the self license space, it’s, you know, obviously Royal Commission, FASEA, um, so it’s- it’s the outtakes of the Commission and, um, the impact on businesses and the interpretation. What is it ultimately for me? That’s all great. What is it that I need to do in my business to ensure that I am at the upper end here in providing advice as the world sees it?

Andy Marshall: [00:42:31] So that’s one of the challenges there. Um, from the education point of view, um, interestingly this has come down to a lot of people saying, “I don’t have the time to do it.” So, you know, once again that time management piece is incredibly important, but that’s a big challenge. I think there’s a lot of, um, inherent unfairness. I just want to say that straight out, you know, I have an advisor I’ve known for- for years, 30 years of advice experience, his son has started in the business and has only been in the business for six months and m- meets the qualification criteria and this advisor doesn’t, this advisor’s gonna have to do, what, seven units.

Andy Marshall:[00:43:10] Um, and you’re like, “Wow, Green couldn’t hold a client conversation, wonderful experience, wonderful adviser. Wow, there’s just some inherent unfairness there.” Nevertheless that’s the challenge that we have to deal with, so we’ve got that. From a self licenses point of view, um, PI insurance, um, is huge. So, you know, I’m trying to deploy different solutions around that to circumvent the PI increases that people are seeing, and the challenge of the whole advice process from engagement to a compliant piece of advice min- ... and reducing as much as possible the cost of advice, but providing an ideal and really well regarded service experience for the client, what’s the technology framework around that, that is going to deliver that for me?

Andy Marshall: [00:44:04] And that is where a lot of people are struggling. We ... I have known people who are in, um, focus groups trying to build something and trying to do integration here integration there, you know, nothing plugs together. It’s an immense frustration and, you know, the realization that you do need to look beyond that, I think there’s a lot of confusion around that. So I’m trying to assist people, um, with looking at the- the universe and what’s the architecture that would suit you in your business.

Fraser Jack: [00:44:34] Well, hope- hopefully, Andy, we’ve go- got that technology piece, uh, under control, but, um, I just wanted to touch on the- the PI insurance piece, what’s happening in PI at the moment for self employed, or self licensed?

Andy Marshall: [00:44:44] Uh, well some- some providers are just getting out of the market completely, and whilst they- they’re not overtly saying, “We’re gone,” they’re sending you lovely, um, renewals with 50%, 100% increases, so essentially they’re gone. They don’t want the business. Um, so they’re gun shy of, um, certain types of business, definitely not really that interested in looking at businesses with a lot of gearing, they’re really concerned over you’re running a- a boutique AFSL or any AFSL, and you have advisors in multiple offices, you know, how are you maintaining that?

Andy Marshall: [00:45:23] What’s on your APL, so let’s, you know ... so they’re asking to look at what’s on your APL, how you’re monitoring and supervising, um, what’s your levels of gearing, and the terms that are coming back what I’ve seen people ... people are coming back with sig- significant increases, um, from the insurers that they’ve been using for quite some time. So there’s- there’s concern there for ... because, you know, that’s a huge cost. You add into that the ASIC fees as well, which has just hit everyone’s, uh, mailboxes, um, you know, there’s some increased costs for businesses at the moment.

Andy Marshall: [00:45:56] So in that- that balance between, um, trying to provide advice aff- affordably, um, doing education, so you could ar- argue that I’m gonna have less revenue generating hours in my business, my costs have just gone up dramatically, and also, you know, if I’ve got six advisers and they all need to study, who’s paying for that? Like, you know, so these are the- the balances. So where I can help, you know, with the PI solution is certainly something that’s forefront there, it’s- it’s really much needed as people’s renewals are coming up.

Fraser Jack: [00:46:28] Yeah, if I ... if I was a PI insurer, and I put my PI insurance head on, I would be thinking, uh, you know, the monitoring and supervision pieces is- is a massive piece for them because as you know, when, you know, when you’re dealing with an insurance company or an insurance policy if the underwriter doesn’t know, then they load, right?

Andy Marshall: [00:46:45] Yep.

Fraser Jack: [00:46:45] If they don’t know what is in the files of that, then they load the- the premium. So it’s really, to me, it’s around saying how do we ... how do we show the, uh, the PI insurer that we’ve looked at every single file, every single piece of advice prior going to the client, and it was all compliant and therefore that should hopefully bring the PI premium down do you think?

Andy Marshall: [00:47:01] Y- yeah, and- and one angle that we’ve gone to ... we, as in Alliances, has gone to the PI insurers with, is we’ve said, “This is actually how we select a practice to actually become a member of Alliances.” We- we have said no this year to ... uh, we’ve said yes rather to about one in six, and the reason why we’ve haven’t said, um, yes to the other five is that the compliance and supervision was not of a scale that even we could fix, and you wouldn’t ... you weren’t gonna listen to us anyway.

Andy Marshall: [00:47:39] That’s one, and then two, we’ve also gone to the PI providers and said, “This is the education curriculum that we run, this is the compliance systems that these, um, businesses partake in,” and they then looked to that and gone, “All right, well if they’re following that and you’re educating them on this and they’re using those systems and processes, then we’re prepared to- to give a- a- a better rate.”

Andy Marshall: [00:48:02] So it does come down to the- the demonstration, so that’s a demonstration on our behalf of how we’re managing compliance and assisting businesses managing compliance, and then there’s a vote of confidence with an Alliances business using that methodology, then perceives as a better risk.

Fraser Jack: [00:48:18] Yep, very good. Nice way of doing it. Now tell me, there’s, um, you’re, you know, working with a lot of the practices, you’re doing a lot of courses, writing books, uh, what are you working on at the moment for the near future?

Andy Marshall: [00:48:29] Um, well (laughs) I’m trying to market the second book, which was launched, um, end of November, which is, um, is my pride and joy, baby, love it, and that- that is really ... that’s the look on the eleven life areas that I used to discuss with clients, but did heavily explore myself (laughs), um, about ... and then did a massive survey, you know, 5,000 people have completed this survey in the 35 to 60 age group, about how they feel about these eleven life areas, and then I’ve looked at what’s the psychology around it, how do you ... what are the benefits of- of enhancing those life areas, and how do you find time to do it?

Andy Marshall: [00:49:10]Essentially the book is about reprogramming your thinking and thinking in a different mindset, and going from one of, um, having no time to having time affluence to focus on all the areas of life that are important for you. So that’s my love, so I’m focusing on that. That’s kind of an outside of work activity that’s-

Fraser Jack: [00:49:26] Right. You- you’d better give it a quick plug here, give it a tip. Where- where can we find it?

Andy Marshall: [00:49:30] You can find it, look- look, here’s one.

Fraser Jack: [00:49:32] (laughs)

Andy Marshall: [00:49:32] There’s one there.

Fraser Jack: [00:49:35] We- we can ... the list is fine.

Andy Marshall: [00:49:36] Live Your Dream Life: Maximising happiness and balance, it is ... if you Google it, it is just about on any, uh, book store outlet, Angus & Robertson, Amazon, Booktopia, Book Depository, Fishpond, whatever, it’s all there in multiple formats. Um, it’s being reviewed at the moment by quite a few health and wellbeing magazines, and so I’m hopeful that there’ll be some momentum, um, you know, I’d love to see it in a Dymocks or at the airport would be nice, um, ‘cause I spend so much time in airports, but, you know, that’s what’s happening.

Andy Marshall: [00:50:10] So, you know, I’d love people to check it out and, um, and- and see what they think, but, um, it’s writ- ... been written really honestly. A lot of ... one person fed back to me and said that it’s- it’s- it’s ... “The benefit I got out if this was from like reading 10 books ‘cause you’ve got everything in there,” and I thought that was really lovely. Um, and then other people have said, “You’ve made it really accessible, um, to take action steps.” Um, and so, yeah, so that’s- that’s great.

Andy Marshall: [00:50:37] Um, carrying that theme, you know, yeah, I’m- I’m headlong focused with the, um, Alliance’s community to grow the community and to deliver that compliance interpretation, um, the technology solutions ar- ... that will deliver great run businesses, happy clients, happy advisers, and- and growth. They- they want growth, so ... and done all- all really well, and done in terms of that you’ve got great client outcomes, um, and that’s the philosophy that we’ve had with Alliance is, that’s the philosophy that was voted on by the members as well.

Andy Marshall: [00:51:15] It was those areas and those outcomes that they wanted so, you know, I see my role as how do I support that, how do I support your ambitions in those areas?

Fraser Jack: [00:51:25] Yeah, I love the way you’re actually, uh, doing whatever the members are asking you to do rather than, um, you know, com- ... bringing up ... bringing stuff up and saying, “You should have this.”

Andy Marshall: [00:51:33] Yeah, I mean it, um ... you know, (laughs) yeah, you can all think you know the right way of doing things. I’ve been around long enough to know that you’ve got ask the wise people in the room and- and have a collaboration.

Fraser Jack: [00:51:47] Yeah, now obviously there’s a lot of, uh, pressure and change and bits and pieces going on at moment, um, how do you see all this panning out in the long term?

Andy Marshall:[00:51:54] Uh, I’m glad you’re asking me today when I feel positive, um, if you’d asked me another day (laughs) and I’m like completely the opposite, um, yeah and obviously there’s gonna be some change and a lot of pain and structural, um, change. Um, I’m- I’m- I’m really hopeful however that the ... um, we won’t lose too many advisors, and that’s- that’s my big concern, that we will lose a lot of wisdom out of the community.

Andy Marshall: [00:52:20] I’m hoping that we can hang on to them, um, for as long as possible and I’m positive in terms of the value and need for advice, that’s unquestioned. The value of advice you can absolutely demonstrate that there’s absolute value, um, economically and psychologically from getting advice. So that- that’s got to continue through and we- we need to support that. I’m- I’m- I’m really positive about the innovations that we’re seeing in technology, um, the greater dialogue on client engagements, um, that will lead more people to come and partake in- in the advice process.

Andy Marshall:00:53:02I- I- I think there still needs to be some really strong lobbying of government to highlight the good in advice and, you know, whether that means the coming together of associations or what have you, but we- we really need to be starting to singing from the same hymn sheet. It’s so fractured. I mean I just look at the groups that you can join us an advisor, there’s so many different groups that you can join and, um, you know, there’s not one cohesive voice, you know, as- as fond as I am of- of certain, um, industry bodies.

Andy Marshall: [00:53:34] Um, so I’m positive that people need advice and there are great advisors who will be able to deliver it. Yeah, I’m- I’m just cautious about the structural damage that we’re gonna have to go through, um, which includes people as well-

Fraser Jack: [00:53:50] Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Andy Marshall: [00:53:50] ... that we ... that we lose.

Fraser Jack: [00:53:51] Yeah, there definitely will be some people casualties along the way.

Andy Marshall: [00:53:55] Yeah.

Fraser Jack: [00:53:56] Now, uh, I’ll- I’ll finish up with a c- ... my sort of quick fire fast questions, uh, at the end. Um, just give us some tips in the relation to if you were chatting to consumers at a barbecue, what tips do you give them about, uh, finding an advisor or- or- or getting financial advice?

Andy Marshall: [00:54:11] Yeah, great. Um, it’s in the book (laughs). It’s in the money chapter, um, but, I- I essentially say that you ... that you- you need to get advice. This is ... this is ... this is not something you can ask, you know, if I was at a- a barbecue and I said the- the value for advice of a good advisor ... a good adviser will base a solution and a pathway on your specific needs. They are not trying to pigeonhole you into a box, they’re not trying to sell you a product, they wanna have an open discussion about what’s really important to you, and they’ll give ... come up with some o- options for you to take.

Andy Marshall: [00:54:54] And ultimately you have to take ownership of what you’re doing. So I say, “You need to find someone that’s matched to you, matched to- to a philosophy that you have about your worldview, um, but you need to be willing to discuss that with an ... with an advisor.” So any advisor that you need to sort of quiz about what’s your process, what are you going to take me through, what’s- what’s your initial meeting like et cetera, um, you know, what’s your philosophy on advice, on investing, um, how are you going to align, um, your solutions that you provide to my goals, my personal goals?

Andy Marshall: [00:55:34] Now any advisor should be able to easily demonstrate how we do that, and frankly that initial- initial four tier positioning piece does that, and so that’s ... the c- consumer should ask those questions, ‘cause ultimately it’s like what clients do you work with, right, what types of solutions do you deploy, why, what’s your process, what type of outcomes do you get for people? You know, it’s the same thing in reverse and that’s what the consumers should be asking. An adviser can ... who can, um, answer those and articulate that really well, um, will nine times out of ten win that client.

Fraser Jack: [00:56:11] Yeah, very good. Now what tips do you give to a, uh, a young advisor or somebody that’s looking to become an advisor, uh, into, you know, uh, whatever pathway they choose to take, what tips do you give to them?

Andy Marshall: [00:56:22] Well- well definitely do it. Uh, it is such a rewarding, um, occupation. Um, you ... when you give someone a statement of advice, um, you know, it is an absolute privilege, because you are cementing to them that they are taking charge, they’re taking control, they’re making a step forward, and you’re- you’re helping them on that way.

Andy Marshall: [00:56:47] So it is fantastic, um, so ... but what I would do is- is, you- you have to seek out the- the communities and advisers that you can learn from. Um, I would be attending anything on behavioral economics, on goals based advice, I’d be really understanding that, and exposing yourself to a lot so you can shape what your propositions going to be.

Andy Marshall: [00:57:09] Um, I would be also really prepared to get your story and your personal brand down pat. You need to understand who and why you tick, and why you’re doing the things that you’re doing. You need to ... you need to know that, so I’d really try and work on your self-awareness. Um, so however you want to do that, you know, you can ... you can explore that, but I- I would ... I would be reading books on it, I would be reading books on personal brand, on pitching as in P-I-T-C-H, um, on pitching, um, on, um, on critical thinking, critical assessment.

Andy Marshall: [00:57:41] I’d be ... I’d be reading books on that, plus with behavioral economics, um, books or behavioral finance books, I would be reading that. And- and books about how consumers think, you know, I’d just be devouring information. Then I would be talking to people about that, how they’ve implemented it, but I would just ... you would just be going with the plethora of resources there, you would pick 10 awesome books, devour them, discuss them, talk to the wise people in the room, um, and then form your own opinion from the self-awareness that you’ve- you’ve, um, discovered.

Fraser Jack: [00:58:14] Very good. Now if you’re- you’re speaking to an advisor who’s, you know, maybe s- ... got a traditional or an older model of the- the business and wanting to make a few ... or quite a few changes in the business, maybe introducing more of that, like you talked about, the values and goals sessions at the beginning, what tips do you give to them?

Andy Marshall: [00:58:30] Don’t be scared. Don’t be scared to do it. Um, don’t think someone’s trying to tell you to suck eggs, ‘cause they’re not. Um, don’t think you have to suddenly change the whole process of delivering advice, uh, and don’t think there’s a- a newfangled tool that you can push a button and it just will do everything for you.

Andy Marshall: [00:58:47] I would just be thinking, like you would, you’ve been driving around in a classic Holden. It’s a beaut, right, it’s a really good ... and you’ve looked after it, and it looks fantastic. But you always wanna put a couple of new spark plugs in, and a few new leads, you know, maybe change the filter, maybe that engine needs- needs an- an overhaul. It doesn’t change the integrity of what you’ve got there, it’s just gonna make it better.

Andy Marshall: [00:59:17] So what does that actually mean? I would just look at what your business vision is for the future, what your personal vision is, and then go, “Okay, well how does that translate into the story I’m telling clients? What’s the story I wanna tell and how do I want to engage?” Ultimately that will lead into, I’ve got a list of a 1,000 clients and, you know what, I can’t deliver that in this new world to the other 1,000 clients, so what do I need to do here?

Andy Marshall: [00:59:48] So we ... so we need to have some book rationalization, there might be some segmenting that needs to be done et cetera, et cetera, um, but ultimately that- that starting point is- is just lift the hood on your business and go, “I love this, I love who I am, I love the shape of this- this car that I’m driving around in, but I reckon a few of these leads and things need to be changed. What do we need to do here?”

Andy Marshall: [01:00:10] Get someone in to talk to you about it, and if that person comes in and just tries to force a system on you, uh, or a new philosophy or tell you you’re wrong, chuck him out, um, but just say if someone’s willing to listen to you about where you want to take this business and what’s important to you about it and will challenge you and have that honest debate about, well, what if we do it this way, they will not change you, they will not change the way that, um, that you’ve built this business, but we can have nuances here, and I think that’s a step you can take. I- I would explore that now.

Fraser Jack: [01:00:46] Yeah, very good one. I just had a visual there of a ... of, uh, you know, going on a journey and getting the car serviced before you go (laughs). Um, so tell me ... tell me, uh, what about ... what about just for yourself, if you could go- go back in time and have a do-over and- and redo some of the past, what, you know, what would you do differently?

Andy Marshall: [01:01:02] Fraser, I’d go back to the 11 year old boy and be telling different messages and, you know, probably every year since then there’ll be, “Oh, if only I did that.” Um, there’s too much of that to do, and I guess I’m at the point ... um, you know what, uh, um, sliding doors moments, I have them all the time, and I’m not one of those persons ... people that says, “Oh, I have no regrets, you can’t afford to have regrets.”

Andy Marshall: [01:01:26] Oh, hell, no I regret a lot of stuff, and I wish you’d done it differently. What I’d tell my today self is that, um, you- you are who you are because of those experiences, um, you’ve learned a lot, um, I would probably ... I would probably go back to the advice Andy, and I probably would’ve kept the business. Um, I would have fought too now ... with what I know now, to keep the business, because I- I know what that could have become. So, yeah, can’t do that, so let’s do the next best thing.

Fraser Jack: [01:02:06] There you go. I’m sure people will get ... you know, take something away from that. Now thank you so much for your time, uh, today. I really appreciate you coming on the show and- and sharing your wisdom and your ideas and- and- and some of your book, and you’ve given away some of the ending there, so but people will still buy it, I’m sure. The, uh ... and- and thank you for, uh, for being so generous with your, uh, your time and ideas. I appreciate it.


Andy Marshall: [01:02:27] No, it’s an absolutely pleasure. I love chatting to you and about these types of topics and I ... look I hope people got something out of it and, um, you know, um, that, yeah, people feel free to reach out, you know, I’m always open to a chat.

Fraser Jack: [01:02:41] And if people ... if they want to reach you out, how can we get hold of you?

Andy Marshall: [01:02:43] Oh, easiest is, um, Andy.Marshall@ioof.com.au, um, but, you know, LinkedIn, I’m probably the quickest responder on LinkedIn apart from anything else. Ask Fraser, I never respond to text, so just don’t send me text-

Fraser Jack: [01:02:59] (laughs)

Andy Marshall: [01:02:59] ... but LinkedIn, I’ll respond.

Fraser Jack: [01:03:01] Stalk you on LinkedIn. Good message. All right, thanks Andy.

Andy Marshall: [01:03:05] Cheers mate.

Fraser Jack: [01:03:05] If you haven’t already, I’d love you to subscribe to the podcast on your podcast platform of choice. And to continue the conversation, head over to our social media channels. We’ll catch you next time.


Disclaimer: This document is a transcription obtained through a third party. There is no claim to accuracy on the content provided in this document, and divergence from the audio file are to be expected. As a transcription, this is not a legal document in itself, and should not be considered binding to advice intelligence, but merely a convenience for reference.