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Podcast Transcript

Episode 30, Season 1

Uncovering clients top 100 goals with Keith Abraham's 25 questions


Keith Abraham: [00:00] You know what? Don’t worry about any of that. The best advice [inaudible 00:00:02] of the year, FPA of the year. All of those, the very, very best, have a meaningful conversation around what’s important, what matters, and what’s going to make a difference to your life.

Keith Abraham: [00:18] They talk about their goals and aspirations. They talk about the wishes and desires. They talk about their destinations they want to go to, and then, then they talk about the money.

Fraser Jack: [00:33] Hello. Welcome to the Goals Based Advice Podcast, where I have conversations with pioneers of the new world of financial advice. I’m your host, Fraser [inaudible 00:00:40], I want to say thank you so much for tuning in today.

Fraser Jack: [00:42] A big shout out to all that have given me feedback and reviews so far. If you’re enjoying this podcast, then please help me spread the word. Share it around your friends and colleagues. Maybe grab their phone, open up the podcast app, and subscribe to this show, on their behalf, of course.

Fraser Jack: [00:56] Don’t forget to leave me a review on Itunes or whichever platform you access this podcast. I would also like to thank our supporting partner, Advice Intelligence, for powering this podcast. Where you can book a demo directly, from the Advice Intelligence website at adviceintelligence.com.

Fraser Jack: [01:12] In this episode, I bring you one of the best presenters to financial advisors in Australia. The one, the only, Keith Abraham. He’s passionate. He has a purpose and a crap load of great ideas to help goals based advisors develop their businesses.

Fraser Jack: [01:29] We cover topics like turning your top 100 lifetime dreams into goals. We talk about book writing, and also treating retirement as a new career. I loved my chat with Keith, and I know you will, too. I could spend a few days getting right into the nitty gritty of all his ideas and techniques and programs, but unfortunately, we only have an hour.

Fraser Jack: [01:50] Let’s dive head first into our chat, right now.

Fraser Jack: [01:59] Welcome to the show, Keith.

Keith Abraham: [02:01] Hey, Fraser. Good to catch up with you again, buddy.

Fraser Jack: [02:03] It is. It’s fantastic. It’s been a while since we caught up.

Keith Abraham: [02:06] It has been. It has been. I know you’ve been doing a number of my presentations and conferences over the years. Great to reconnect with you, and really excited to be on your podcast, today.

Fraser Jack: [02:16] Oh, great. Thank you. Now, I’m trying to give the listeners a quick overview of just you and what you do at the moment.

Keith Abraham: [02:22] Yeah, sure. The last 22 years I worked with financial planners and advisors, and large other corporates in about 20 different industries, 30 countries around the world. Spoken to more than 1.6 million people.

Keith Abraham: [02:36] Five best selling books published in 12 different languages. Is that a good snapshot, I suppose?

Fraser Jack: [02:41] That’s a pretty good snapshot of a pretty incredible and amazing career. Now, do you want to take us back to the beginning? How you got into this area, and-

Keith Abraham: [02:51] Yeah. Recently, I was a trainer with [Sun Corp 00:02:55] and this is 22, 28 years ago. Started in that role. Well, I was working with life insurance agents when they were called life insurance agents, and taking them to the induction.

Keith Abraham: [03:11] Had to get them in the industry. Teaching them sales skills, personality selling, and then I had an opportunity to start my own business. I had a couple of people that I connected with said, “We would like you to speak at a conference,” and [inaudible 00:03:23] was one of my first clients.

Keith Abraham: [03:26] Started to get some momentum, I went to my boss and in essence took him out to lunch and fired him. In the nicest possible way. He’s a great guy. That’s how it all got started. I’ve just been working off referrals and planners, and working with planners and advisors, and dealership groups all around the world.

Keith Abraham: [03:46] Up through Asia, in Australia, New Zealand, America, the UK. I’ve been involved. Spoken main platform twice for [MDRT 00:03:55] and so that’s been the journey along the way. It’s been cool. I have spoken at more than 100 conference every year for the last 22 years.

Keith Abraham: [04:12] I think the one thing, Fraser, just to put all this ... The 1.6 million people, if you’re hanging around as long as I do, you’re going to speak to a lot of people, but what’s really floats my boat is that 96% of my clients use me a second time. Most professional speakers, they get one bite of the cherry and then either they weren’t any good, or they were good, but the client goes, “All right. They’ve only got one presentation,” or whatever it might be.

Keith Abraham: [04:43] But 96% of my clients use me a second time. 63% of my clients have used me more than six times. 35% of my clients have used me every year for the last 10 years plus. Toyota, Lexus, globally I work with them every year for the last 14 years.

Keith Abraham: [04:59] They’re just two of about 40 clients that use me every year. That’s how we move from there to, at this point, anyway.

Fraser Jack: [05:10] Yeah. It must be, for a lot of speakers and people that are doing what you’re doing, constantly having to find new clients. If you can get them getting you back, that’s certainly a great start

Keith Abraham: [05:20] Well, if you’re a financial advisor, if you’re a professional speaker, if you’re a hairdresser, a butcher, you got to add value. Adding value is part of building a better relationship. Building a better relationship is, that’s one of the key pillars for creating loyal, profitable customers.

Keith Abraham: [05:37] That was the first book I wrote, because everyone is talking about sales and service, but nobody is talking about loyalty. When I wrote that book it was really relevant, and it still is relevant. Even more so today, is how to get people to come back. Most organizations, including planners and advisors, I was working with 50 planners and advisors yesterday, for the whole day.

Keith Abraham: [06:00] I said to them, “Too many people in this industry operate on a three F principle. We find, [inaudible 00:06:08]. There is a fourth F. I’m not going into that now, but that’s what happens. You’ve got to be this dynamic of being both a hunter and a farmer.

Keith Abraham: [06:17] If you’re a hunter and you’re not a farmer, you’ve got to bring some people into your organization. I don’t say employ people, but bring some people in the organization who will do the nurturing of your clients. Staying in touch with them when they’re not doing business with you.

Keith Abraham: [06:31] People say, “What’s the secret that we will be able to get our clients to come back and use us?” Well, you stay top of mind.

Fraser Jack: [06:37] Yeah, no. That’s exactly right. I was just thinking that you’ve obviously done a lot of work with advisors over the years. You have seen all the changes and been involved, a part of all the change that’s gone on over that time.

Fraser Jack: [06:49] I guess the true constant has been that it’s a relationship business?

Keith Abraham: [06:53] Yeah. I mean, that doesn’t change. With everything happening in the Royal Commission, and all the changes around [inaudible 00:06:59] and all that sort of stuff, and the diminishing of, removal of commissions. All of that has happened during this time.

Keith Abraham: [07:08] However, the one consistent is that people still need to have someone in their corner. Someone that’s got their back that’s helping them with their financial advice. Helping them to only to understand where to invest on, how to protect what they’ve got, how to secure their future, but also talking to them about their goals and aspirations.

Keith Abraham: [07:31] That’s the missing link. Too many advisors are planners just go straight to the money. What do we got to insure? What do you want to invest in? How much money have you got in [super 00:07:41]? When do you want to retire? You know what?

Keith Abraham: [07:44] Don’t worry about any of that. The best advisors that I work with that have won [IFI 00:07:49] of the year, FPA of the year, all of those, the very, very best, have a meaningful conversation around what’s important, what matters, and what’s going to make a difference to your life.

Keith Abraham: [08:01] They talk about their goals and aspirations, they talk about the wishes and desires, they talk about their destinations they want to go to. Then, then, they talk about the money.

Fraser Jack: [08:13] Couldn’t agree more. That process often takes a fair amount of time. It’s not getting straight to the transaction, is it?

Keith Abraham: [08:19] It’s a conversation. I’ve got a couple advisors I work with. They send out a book, one of my books, to the prospective client. Saying, “When you come in to your meeting, we would like you to complete page 25 to page 32, and please bring that list in with you, because this is where were going to start our conversation. This is your preparation.”

Keith Abraham: [08:41] Now, there will be some advisors who go, “Sorry. They’re not even a client. Why would I give them a $30 book if they’re not even a client?” Because, you know what? This is about adding value.

Fraser Jack: [08:51] You’ve got your books, and obviously giving things out to clients or setting up that conversation’s really important so the client comes in expecting or understanding what’s the process is going to be.

Fraser Jack: [09:04] You’ve got a lot of resources around that, as well. Haven’t you?

Keith Abraham: [09:07] Yeah. Look, at the end of the day, because a large pillar of my business has been working with planners and advisors, dealership groups, insurance, investment houses, funds manager, because of that I’ve been fortunate that, and because you get invited back, you create more content.

Keith Abraham: [09:24] Also, you listen to people and you go, “Oh, wow. That’s a bit of a challenge. I think I’ve got a model for that,” and so you create content that people can use in their business. I’ll give you an example.

Keith Abraham: [09:37] I ran a one day workshop with 55 advisors and planners. At the workshop, it was sponsored by MLC, and at that workshop, here’s just some of the tools that we gave people. We got them started on their list of 100 goals.

Keith Abraham: [09:53] There’s 25 questions, here. I’ve got a document on that. We then went through and articulated what’s the four key goals they want to achieve, personally. In the areas of personal, professional, profitable, physical. Then I got another document around creating the business of your dreams.

Keith Abraham: [10:10] Fraser, if I was to say, if I go, “Wave a magic wand and give you the business of your dreams,” here are the 12 questions I want to ask you to give you clarity. What we do know is with clarity comes confidence. With confidences comes certainty. With certainty, comes consistency.

Keith Abraham: [10:27] Then after that, we then articulated I’ve got a process called the Goal Driver formula, which I created. Which is the most unique way to set goals. Nobody on this planet teaches this, because I spent 30 years developing this concept and insights around people making sure they become emotionally, mentally, and physically connected to the goal.

Keith Abraham: [10:49] What does that really look like? Why, what, how? Feel, think, do. Heart, head, hands. You have got to have this congruency with the heart, the head, and the doing. Otherwise, people just won’t do it. Any excuse will do.

Keith Abraham: [11:04] Then after that, so all of those activities, after lunch we then went and mapped out what’s the service experience? We then went and mapped out what they need to do to change. We’ve got a model and a formula around, how do they evolve?

Keith Abraham: [11:20] How do they evolve with ease, so it’s effortless, rather than being upheaval. Then we talked about the service experience. We went through this model around what you do before, during, after, and forever after. Then we talked about this 10 steps of gaining referrals.

Keith Abraham: [11:37] We talked about eh different strategies that a low cost, no cost, and sum cost, to build a connection and loyalty with your clients, so they want to be with you forever. They all walked away with a strategy. Not intentions. Not, oh, wow. This has been so good, and you were entertaining, and you told a few stories. That’s all given, but that they walked away with an actual, physical strategy that in 45 day’s time they come back and they spend another half day with me.

Keith Abraham: [12:07] We hold their feet to the fire, and we hold them accountable, because that’s the big challenge. One of the things, advisors, if you think you’re too young. Back in the old days, oh geez. I hate saying that. That really ages me, but 22 years ago, life insurance agents had sales managers.

Keith Abraham: [12:28] These days, financial advisors and financial planners have practice managers that will knock on their door [inaudible 00:12:38]. It’s not the same, because there’s not the degree of accountability. All of these people signed up knowing that I was going to have this accountability session.

Keith Abraham: [12:46] In 45 day’s time, they don’t want to come back to that and say, “Well, I haven’t done anything.” I’ll get a shellacking.

Fraser Jack: [12:51] Yeah. It feels like the accountability buddy these days is the compliance officer.

Keith Abraham: [12:55] Yeah. Well, great for making sure you’re not getting a shellacking from your compliance team. You got to have that, but who’s the person that’s holding your account more? It’s my bank manager. It’s my partner.

Keith Abraham: [13:09] No, you got to have somebody. A coach or a mentor, said, “You said you were going to do that. Have you implemented that?”

Fraser Jack: [13:16] Does sound like a lot of the successful advisors that I speak to have all got that coaching or that accountability person, or a business coach. Yeah.

Keith Abraham: [13:23] Yeah, here’s what I found out. The people that are average to above average in our industry, and the people that are high performance, the high performers are doing five things different.

Fraser Jack: [13:34] Now, the work that you’re doing then, with those advisors, is really helping them and your goal driver process and all these things that you go through the advisors. I guess it’s a fairly similar process to what they would then translate back to a process that they could implement with their clients?

Keith Abraham: [13:50] 100%. One of the reasons what I’m loving about your podcast is you’re talking about goal based advice, is that that’s the conversation we need to be having with clients. We need to be talking about their goals, their dreams, their desires, their destinations they want to go to.

Keith Abraham: [14:06] Then helping them to design and plan that will move them towards that. I would just be saying to anybody listening, start to shift the conversation away from money, to moving more towards the conversation about, tell me what your goals are.

Keith Abraham: [14:28] Now, here’s the challenge for most advisors, is that you have to become the living example of that. You can’t be talking to your clients about their goals and their list of 100, if you don’t have it. You can’t be talking about their goals and aspirations if you don’t have the goals clearly defined for the next 12 months, for the next five years, the vision for the future.

Keith Abraham: [14:52] You got to be the living example. People have got a built in BS meter.

Fraser Jack: [14:56] Yeah. There’s a real authenticity there, in the advice now. I’ve seen your list of 100. You don’t just list it. You do it in a really special way where you’re almost like a word chart or a graffiti, or somebody who’s drawn it and each goal is sort of in a different text or font or size, and all over the page. It looks fantastic.

Fraser Jack: [15:14] A great poster, by the way. Just to have something like that, behind the advisor or on the wall, where you can say, “Well, here’s my 100.”

Keith Abraham: [15:24] Absolutely, or just you know, it doesn’t even have to be that fancy. All I had to do was bring out their list, and if they want to go to KeithAbraham.com and go to resources, there is the 25 questions that I ask people to get them to 100 goals.

Keith Abraham: [15:42] Utilize that process. Obviously, give me credit for it, but I’m happy to give it to people. The piece there is that you get people to really start to think about, “Wow, this is different. This is not what I expected from a financial advisor.”

Keith Abraham: [15:58] In a sea of sameness, it’s hard to have a point of difference. This is one of the ways to create a point of difference.

Fraser Jack: [16:05] Yeah. I really love the list of 25. It gives you 25 questions, and you’re only really giving four answers for each question, rather than to try and list of a big stack of goals, or aspirations.

Keith Abraham: [16:15] Yeah. Well, people don’t know where to start. I just worked it out. If it’s a problem find a solution, it won’t be a problem anymore. When people say, look. I’m really struggling to get to 100. Well, the answer is always in the question.

Keith Abraham: [16:28] Let me ask 25 questions. If you can come up with four answers for each question, now [inaudible 00:16:33] around this. One of the things that I often say to people is that it’s not, there are some questions that you write down nothing in, but there will be other questions you write down 10 things in.

Keith Abraham: [16:43] One of the questions, could you think of 10 countries you would love to visit? Everyone can think of 10. It’s easy to get to 100. You just got to follow the process.

Fraser Jack: [16:54] With the process, now with your process with your advisors, thinking about it more around the idea of, where to next after that? You’ve done the list. What’s the next prioritization?

Keith Abraham: [17:04] Yeah. I think you got to go from macro to micro. The macro is 100 things you want to do in your lifetime. Then what we do then is we then say, “Okay, well now that we’ve done that, what are the key goals you would like to achieve in the next 12 months?”

Keith Abraham: [17:20] Then when we’ve done that, which could be four or five or 10, then we come back and say, “If you could only achieve one goal. If you could only achieve one goal in the next 12 months. If I could help you add value, help you on that journey, what would that one goal be?”

Keith Abraham: [17:36] Then you start building some questions around the, to do that, what do you need to start doing? What do you need to stop doing? That goal most likely because you’re the advisor sitting in front of us, that goals’ probably going to start leaning towards a financial outcome, but if it does and they say, “We haven’t been on decent holiday forever,” well tell me. Where would you want to go?

Keith Abraham: [17:58] Well, how long would you like to be away for? What would you like to do there? Tell me, who’s going to go with you? Inevitably, whatever goal they’re talking about will have a money component, and that’s where you come in.

Fraser Jack: [18:12] It is incredible. When you go through this process, I’m always interested in how many goals people have in the point of view. How many can you actually think about at one time? It could have, sure you could have some that are in the back of your mind, or in the “Nice to have” bucket, but how many can you focus on at a time?

Keith Abraham: [18:31] Look, my belief around this is that you probably can have one goal in each I the four areas, to have balance in your life. I think business goals are easy, but you’re going to have four. The four key areas of personal, so personal, right, is the travel, family, things that you want to do for yourself.

Keith Abraham: [18:50] The second is professional, so that would be like your career. Now I often say to people phrases, that retirement is a career. You got to plan to retire, but you got to plan on what you’re going to do in retirement. I do a lot of work with pre and post retirees, and most of their identity and status has been tied up, men in particular, to the last job they had.

Keith Abraham: [19:17] I was a COO of this organization. Well, now you’re just Larry down at the golf club. It’s important that they’ve got goals that move on from that. Then the next area is around physical, and that’s your health and fitness, and strength. Not just body strength, but the strength of spirit, strength of soul, the strength of mindset.

Keith Abraham: [19:38] Then the final is the profitable. That’s everything to do with money. That’s savings, purchases, investments, things you want to save up for. I have a couple of different approaches, but I make sure that everybody has one goal at least, specific goal in each of those four areas.

Keith Abraham: [19:57] I don’t let people get off the hook. When they say, oh, I want to get healthier. Now, most people, listening to that, write it down. No, no, no. Tell me what that means to you. Oh, I need to lose some weight. Okay, well tell me, is that a kilo or is it 10 kilos?

Keith Abraham: [20:09] If it’s a kilo, that’s too easy. If it’s 10 kilos, well then we need to talk about some other thing. I want to get off this medication. I just heard a [inaudible 00:20:19] the other day just went on this health program that was, he’s been a diabetic.

Keith Abraham: [20:26] He’s now off any diabetic injections, insulin. It’s like a transform ... He just totally transformed himself.

Fraser Jack: [20:35] Yep. I love the idea of helping clients set goals that have very little financial impact, like trying to get off medication or doing something like that.

Keith Abraham: [20:45] Well, at the end of the day you want to be a, we toss this trusted advisor language around a lot in the industry, but you want to be on the journey with them. The only way you’re going to ever be a trusted advisor is if you’re adding value to them as the whole person.

Keith Abraham: [21:06] Not just the financial person. It’s important that people determine and apply that [inaudible 00:21:14]. Now, there are some people who go to a listing, go, “I just don’t want to get into that much detail. I just want to know where to put the money and get it set up for them, and set up their investment accounts, and give them an online portal to go to,” and [inaudible 00:21:29]. Next.

Keith Abraham: [21:31] There’s people like you and I who say the best way we can add value is to make a difference and to transform people, and to have a purpose in life is to add value and to make a difference. Then there’s other people who say, “look. Show me the money and let me have that conversation,” and we’ll send you a bill.

Fraser Jack: [21:52] Now, I thought it was really interesting that you said before, that retirement is a career. I thought that was a very good way of looking at it. I suppose it’s a, [inaudible 00:22:01] career. It’s a full time job. It’s seven days a week.

Fraser Jack: [22:05] There’s no time off from it. Yeah. I just thought I would expand on that a little bit more, about how that-

Keith Abraham: [22:09] Well, I run a series of workshops around the country, for [inaudible 00:22:15]. For all their private wealth clients. Sorry, private banking. My apologies. High net worth individuals. You got a few things that happen there.

Keith Abraham: [22:27] Firstly, you got inner generational wealth transfer, but also, they wanted to add value and say to them, look. I coined this phrase of, there’s probably somebody else have said it, but I made it up on stage and it resonated with the group, which was, “Retirement is a career,” and everyone’s going, yeah. That makes sense.

Keith Abraham: [22:47] It’s a career in that you need to have a plan. Some people say, “Well, I’m going to retire.” What are you going to do? “Oh, I’m not going to do anything. I’m going to do nothing.” Well, no. You do stuff. You breathe, you walk, you talk. If you’ve been pretty active, sooner or later it’s like, okay. Well, what are those goals?

Keith Abraham: [23:08] Do I want to give back? Do I want to explore more? Do I want to pursue some interests that I pushed to one side while I was building my business or raising my family? What is it? We’re giving people permission to dream. We’re giving them permission to pursue the goal, and we’re giving them permission to truly become the best version of themselves, not the second best version of somebody else.

Fraser Jack: [23:38] Yep. Yeah, I know. I like the idea, too, of thinking about any career changes is never easy. It’s tough. Its a tough road going through career changes. There’s a lot to learn. There’s a lot to research and get your head around.

Keith Abraham: [23:51] I remember I saw some research of what happened ... As I said before, men in particular have got status attached. To be perfectly honest, women has as well, but men have got status attached to their career.

Keith Abraham: [24:09] I was the CEO, I was the general manager, I was the business owner, I was the doctor, I was the pilot. That’s the same for women, as well. I was the CEO. I had a family, and then I’m become a CEO. Now I don’t have that.

Keith Abraham: [24:25] I was the homemaker, and now my kids are growing up. We’ve gone through exactly the same, both our daughters have just left school. One is studying, one is traveling. It’s like, oh wow. They don’t need us as much anymore.

Keith Abraham: [24:38] It’s nice, but you also get attached as a parent, or as a father or mother, that you’re this provider and now that that role is, I got all this time back on my hands or I’ve got more time back on my hands, what do I do with it?

Keith Abraham: [24:53] It becomes this void that you need to fill with something that’s important to you.

Fraser Jack: [24:59] I know you do a lot of work on the idea of purpose and having a purpose, and having something to go to. It occurs to me as we’re talking now that in that retirement, when you’re talking to retirees or clients coming into that stage, that you need to prepare them with some sort of a purpose or mindset to say, as you said, this is a new career.

Fraser Jack: [25:20] You’ve got a new purpose in life.

Keith Abraham: [25:22] Yeah. What’s next? The conversation around what’s next. What’s important. What matters. What makes a difference to you. What’s meaningful, what type of undertaking you want to take that’s actually meaningful to you.

Keith Abraham: [25:39] People aren’t having that conversation with them. They might have that conversation with their partner, or they might have that conversation in their head, but they’re not having that in depth conversation with many of their friends or family.

Keith Abraham: [25:56] That just doesn’t come up in most sales calls. We’re talking about the football, the government, or the election, or this identity, or whatever it might be. Or this TV show, but we’re not having that meaningful conversation about, tell me what’s your big reason why, now?

Fraser Jack: [26:19] Just on this goals based advice piece, if you were setting up an advice business, how would you go about it? How long would you spend with each client, and what type of a process would you take them through before getting financial advice?

Keith Abraham: [26:31] I honestly believe you got to go through and get them really clear on what some of the ... If somebody’s’ coming to you and saying, they said, “I want to talk to you about getting a financial plan in place an securing my financial future, by protecting my assets and securing my financial future to create wealth.”

Keith Abraham: [26:48] One of the things I would be, yeah. That sounds like, is that a great client? Yeah, but what I would be then saying to them is, “Tell me more about what that means. Tell me more about what’s important to you, what matters to you.”

Keith Abraham: [27:02] I do this activity called the creating your lifetime dream list. If you want a challenge, I want you to write down 100 that you would like to achieve. This becomes, it A, gives me an insight into who you are. It also gives me a bit of an understanding.

Keith Abraham: [27:19] Now, there’s some people probably listening to this podcast going, “My clients would never do that.” Well, let me tell you, if your clients were in front of me in a workshop or a seminar or a one on one, I would get them to do it. I just know that this is the way to go.

Keith Abraham: [27:34] Just so people thinking oh, it sounds, it’s a nice sounding activity. 15 years of research. 15 years of research. We got 1,500 people. 1,500 people sent us a list of 100 goals [inaudible 00:27:50] because I wanted to identify. I know how many I’ve achieved on my list of 100, but I want to see am I average?

Keith Abraham: [27:55] Am I below average? Am I on track? We got 1,500 people who sent us their list of 100 goals. We said, we’re going to hold onto them for three years. We’re going to send it back to you after the three year period. When we send it back to you, all you have to do is just respond to the email and tell us how many you have achieved.

Keith Abraham: [28:13] Not what you’ve achieved. You can do that if you want. That’s always cool hearing that, but just tell us how many you’ve achieved. 1,500 people responded. The average after three years is 40 of the 100. If you leave it with me for two more years, now it’s five years, it’s 70.

Keith Abraham: [28:34] Now, let me ask you the question. You’re a smart and intelligent. Everybody listening to your podcast is smart and intelligent. Do you think your life might change? Do you think your life might change if you achieve 40 things in the next three years? Big, small, indifferent.

Keith Abraham: [28:49] Things that seemed almost impossible to things that seemed absolutely definitely easy. Do you think your life might change? [inaudible 00:29:00].

Fraser Jack: [29:00] Keith, you just gave me goosebumps when you gave me those numbers, because it made me think of the idea that if they hadn’t of done that list, what would the answer be then? The answer would probably be very little of them.

Keith Abraham: [29:10] Well, 100%. I had a guy yesterday walked up to me and said, I’ve seen you about seven years ago. You made us do this 100 list. He said, “I’m so looking forward to doing it again.” He said, “I cannot tell you, the things I wrote down in that list that I’ve achieved.

Keith Abraham: [29:24] The role that I’m in right now, I wrote that down.” He said, “I achieved it in the first two years.” He said, when I wrote it down, it was a pipe dream.” Talk about giving you goosebumps. That just fires me up.

Keith Abraham: [29:40] Come back to the original question. I’ve been getting people to do the 100. I give them a couple things. I give them a link to my website, to download the 25. There’s a [inaudible 00:29:51] around this that I’ve created. Geez. I’m giving all this stuff away. I better make [inaudible 00:29:58].

Keith Abraham: [29:59] I’m just so passionate about this, because it changes people’s lives. Nothing but good can come from this. Nothing but good can come from it. The next thing I would be doing is sitting down with them and working and saying, “Tell me about your list. Tell me about what’s important to you, what matters to you, this list. What’s stopping you?”

Keith Abraham: [30:22] Then I would start having a goal based conversation. Tell me what your key goals are that you would like to achieve in the next 12 months, around those four areas of professional, personal, profitable, physical.

Fraser Jack: [30:34] I think it’s an amazing place to start, that lifetime dreams list. Then you’re now updating it every few years as well, and you’re now adding the ones that ...

Keith Abraham: [30:43] Well you know, I’ve got a couple of clients. What they do is they just ask the clients to send them photos of the goals they’ve achieved. They got a whole wall in their office, all these people with photos.

Keith Abraham: [30:54] They print them out and they put them on the wall, of people who have walked around [inaudible 00:31:01]. People that have gone to the Italian Tomato Festival. people that have gone running with bulls, or walked the El Camino.

Keith Abraham: [31:12] All of these types of things. What people sending them all of their photos. Inevitably, what a great testimonial, by the way, but inevitably people are going, “Thank you. We would have never achieved this if you didn’t ask us. We probably had financial capacity, but we didn’t have anybody that gave us clarity and permission that we could actually do this.”

Fraser Jack: [31:34] I love this idea that you mentioned. Keeping a tally of the numbers. I think a lot of advisors, and licensees and groups that I speak to, I ask them how many, we’re in the business of achieving our client’s goals. Yet not a lot of them can tell me how many of those goals got achieved out of the last 12 months, and yet they can tell me what their funds and their advice might be.

Fraser Jack: [31:57] Or the amount of policies they have or the amount of clients they have, but they can’t talk about the number of goals. This really comes back down to, how do we use this, sorry, non tangible type of thing to create a tangibility around it, and use it then going forward, to what the value our advice.

Keith Abraham: [32:12] Well, think of it like this, Fraser. Often we’re talking about a financial plan. That’s the method. The message is that you need to have a plan, but really, the magic in what the plan. If your advisors are not ticking each one of those ... The method is easy.

Keith Abraham: [32:35] It’s the magic, because if I can get the magic, if I can get the message that I’m the right person to help you. I’m the [inaudible 00:32:44] I’m going to be this financial coach with you, if I’ve got the right plan in place, the method, why wouldn’t you create momentum?

Fraser Jack: [32:54] I love it. I love it. The magic. What the planning gives you.

Keith Abraham: [32:57] Yeah.

Fraser Jack: [32:58] Fantastic. Thank you. Yeah, and so with regards to timeframes. Sitting down, it feels to me that as we go down this goals based advice pathway, and we really feel this out, and it could be long periods of time in the goal, the dreams, the setting the goals, the aspirations piece of this jigsaw puzzle if you like, and less time in the technical advice space, how many meetings? How long discussion, how long do you think this will take?

Keith Abraham: [33:29] Look, it just varies, Fraser. At the end of the day, if people come with their list of 100, they’re conversating. It could just be an hour’s conversation before you map out a plan moving forward. People couple come there and go, “Look. We just haven’t had a chance to write down,” which is code, because we don’t know what to write down.

Keith Abraham: [33:51] That’s okay, because if people want to go to my website. Actual, let me give you a different website if people want to go to Keith’s Resources, that’s K-E-I-T-H-S Resources.com, they will get my blog, but the real ... They’ll also get a 60 minute audio recording around the goal setting process, but the other thing they’ll get is an ebook.

Keith Abraham: [34:21] Which is called Discover Your Passion, which has got 400 examples of people’s 100 goals. What I often say to people is if you can’t get yourself to 100, that’s okay. Read the list and circle the ones that are appropriate to you. Or modify. Somebody’s got, I want to go to Spain and watch the running of the bulls.

Keith Abraham: [34:46] Somebody else might wrote, I want to go to Spain and do the running of the bulls. Somebody else might have, I want to go to Spain and do the running of the bulls with somebody slower than me. They can change and adjust and modify.

Fraser Jack: [34:56] Yeah. I think it’s a great way of getting people thinking, things pop up. They think, “Oh, yeah. I did want to do that. I had forgotten about that.”

Keith Abraham: [35:04] Oh, yeah. Why 100? People often say, why 100? Why not 20? Well, I think 20 anybody can do that. Well, why not 50? Well, I think anybody can get to a 50, but here’s what we do now. When you’re at 60, 70, 80, you start to dig up all the stuff that you’ve suppressed.

Keith Abraham: [35:19] All the stuff that you’ve pushed to one said. All the stuff that you said, “I’ll do this one day.” All the stuff that you said, “I’m not worthy, deserving of that. I side have the money for it.” One of the things I’ve said to people is, “Not everything is possible, but anything is possible.”

Keith Abraham: [35:34] Nelson Mandela had that lovely quote and said, “It always seems impossible until somebody does it.”

Fraser Jack: [35:40] Yeah. Exactly. Now, if you’re working with a husband and wife, or a partner, do one each and then combine them? How do you ...

Keith Abraham: [35:49] Yeah. It’s always interesting. If it’s a financial advice, part of your sales process type of thing, the thing I would be doing is probably get them to combine the list. When I run public workshops, I only do one a year, but when I do a public workshop and there are life partners in the room, one of the things I often find is that people, I get them to do it individually.

Keith Abraham: [36:14] Then I get them to share it.the amount of people who go, “You know, I’ve been married to her for 20 years. I never, ever knew you wanted to do that. Why have we not talked about that? Why have we not put that in play? Let’s do that. We got means, we got capacity, we got time. Let’s do that.”

Keith Abraham: [36:34] That’s what tends to happen. It’s a great conversation starter.

Fraser Jack: [36:39] Yeah. Couldn’t agree more. The information that comes out, and almost like the financial counseling and goals counseling that comes out of those sessions are pretty incredible. Now, wanted to ask you too, you’ve written a lot of books. Five books. There’s a lot of financial advisors and people that listen to this would sort of have their, maybe a dream in the back of their heads of writing a book.

Fraser Jack: [37:00] Do you want to talk about how you went about it? How you started it, and how it’s gone for you?

Keith Abraham: [37:05] The first thing I would say is that every financial advisor should write a book. [inaudible 00:37:10] it’s your best business card. It positions you as a leading authority. It positions you as an expert.

Keith Abraham: [37:18] It’s [inaudible 00:37:19] of putting down, here’s a copy of my book that I wrote about the seven strategies or seven strategies every retiree should know before they retire. Or, the seven simple principles to creating wealth in today’s modern world.

Keith Abraham: [37:40] Whatever it might be. You should do that. It doesn’t have to be like the Bible. No. It could be a mini book. It could be 50 pages with one quote on each page, but it positions you as the leading authority. Now, so get back to your question. How do I do it?

Keith Abraham: [38:00] Obviously, writing about content that I present on and I talk on, that I research. One of the things that I do for me, everyone’s a little bit different Fraser, but here’s my process. I don’t need a title. I just need a bit of a concept. I’m just about to write another book.

Keith Abraham: [38:20] I’ve got a concept. Then what I do is I write well, what ... I tend to post it note it, so then I think of all the different chunks that I’ve put in there, ideas, models, thoughts, and I just write a whole stack of post it notes and I put it on the wall.

Keith Abraham: [38:37] Then I go, I look for similarities. I look for themes. Then I put those post it notes into a theme. They make up the chapters or the chunks of the book. Then what I do is once I’ve got that visually, I’ll then actually go through and put down some sub-titles or some text around each one of those.

Keith Abraham: [39:00] Once I’ve done that, then what I tend to do is I go away somewhere for a week, and just a laptop, and I write. Tend to go down to the beach. Tend to [inaudible 00:39:12] somewhere where it’s quiet. I don’t want anybody in my space, so to speak. I’m not anti-social or anything like that.

Keith Abraham: [39:19] I go out for breakfast. I’ll go out for lunch or to have a dinner, but I don’t want anybody in my space. I just, the house has got to be burning or something’s got to major happen for the people to actually from my office to contact me. Then I just, I write.

Keith Abraham: [39:34] Now, I’m not a great at editing. I actually hate editing. I write, I just absolutely go through and I write it, and then every day I’ll send a chapter away to somebody in my team to edit and go from there.

Keith Abraham: [39:49] Then, once I’ve done that then off to the designers. At that point in time, when I start writing the theme or the title for the book, and the subtitle for the book, just one little tip. You want a one, two, three word title for the book. Then you want a subtitle.

Keith Abraham: [40:11] Think of the title of your book as right brain creative. Think about the subtitle as left brain logical.

Fraser Jack: [40:23] Okay.

Keith Abraham: [40:25] Seven steps, three ways. Send that’s off to the designer to type set it. Obviously, goes through an editor, then it goes to type setting, design, then once I’ve done that, then it just depends. Sometimes I’ve written, all of my books have been predominantly for the mass market.

Keith Abraham: [40:47] I do know some friends of mine who will do a short print run of 100 copies. There’s companies now, US and Australia, who will do that. I’ve got a client of mine who wrote a book around, geez. What’s the title of it?

Keith Abraham: [41:04] It’s the 12 Strategies Every Procurement Manager Should Know About Maintenance in Underground Mining. Yeah. Very small, niche market, but it positioned him as the expert and it opened the door in becoming number one best seller on Amazon with it, because there’s nobody writing a book around that.

Keith Abraham: [41:27] That’s what I’ve been doing. That’s how I go about writing the book, etc. Then I just get them printed, and either give them away or sell them, or whatever it might be. As I said, you do a print run of 100 copies, you know what? You do a print run of one these days.

Fraser Jack: [41:46] So you can read it yourself.

Keith Abraham: [41:48] Yeah, that’s right. Well, I’ll give it to you.

Fraser Jack: [41:49] Very good. Now, how do you find those editors and the publishers, and all those?

Keith Abraham: [41:54] Well, there’s so many people out there. I’m fortunate that my business manager’s a fantastic editor. Then we give it to another, and then my wife reads it. Somebody else reads it. When we run it through about five different eyes, we sort of, and there have been a couple of clients actually, who are not editors, but they’re avid readers.

Keith Abraham: [42:16] I give it to them. After we’ve done all that, it’s pretty right. It’s pretty good. There’s plenty of editors around. There’s plenty of people, if people want to send me an email I’m always happy to connect them with some people who will actually manage their whole process for them.

Keith Abraham: [42:35] I don’t do that, because I’ve been doing it long enough now, but if you’re new to writing, it’s always good to have an expert around. Once again, people can send me an email, Keith@KeithAbraham.com.au. I’m happy to refer them to some people that will help them on the journey.

Keith Abraham: [42:52] Happy to refer them to a couple of different websites. I just picked up, I’m speaking in about six week’s time in Sacramento. 7,000 people in the US. I won’t take books with me, but I’ll sell books over there. Well, they’ve already pre-bought 1,000 books, but we’ll sell books over there.

Keith Abraham: [43:13] I’ll have them printed in the States. That’s really easy. There’s a couple of different book companies. IngramSpark or [inaudible 00:43:21]. They’ll manage the print process for you. The whole [inaudible 00:43:25]. For us, it’s just giving them a PDF, and away they go.

Keith Abraham: [43:28] For somebody else, it might be whole design layout. Editing, yada, yada, yada.

Fraser Jack: [43:34] The answer here is, just do some high level work and don’t worry about how long it is or whether it’s the right-

Keith Abraham: [43:41] Oh you know, some of the advice I’ve given colleagues of mine is they’re writing the War and Peace. People won’t read it. What I say to them is, write three books. Have a trilogy. It worked for J.K. Rowling. Why not? People want the book to be consumable. Here’s the length.

Keith Abraham: [44:05] A byte in the news agency, or a byte in the news link store, at the airport, in Sydney. I have it read by the time I get to Brisbane. I have it read by the time I get, that’s the length.

Fraser Jack: [44:16] Yeah, okay. Yep.

Keith Abraham: [44:17] Just think consumable.

Fraser Jack: [44:19] Yeah.

Keith Abraham: [44:20] Consumable.

Fraser Jack: [44:21] Yeah. People are tending to want to consume in the shorter space content these days. Now, I just wanted to go through some of the stuff that you’re working on at the moment. You obviously doing a lot of work with licensees or groups or larger groups, or even now, outside of the advice industry.

Fraser Jack: [44:39] Where do people see you? where can they find you? How can they get ... You know?

Keith Abraham: [44:42] There’s a couple of ways. One is go to your dealership group. If you’re a financial planner, an advisor. Tell them you got to get me on your program. Always, I work my whole business on referral. It’s always interesting.

Keith Abraham: [44:55] People go, “I’ve never heard of you.” [inaudible 00:44:58] but interesting enough, there is lot of planners and advisors, and there’s lots of dealership groups that haven’t used me. There’s lots that have used me multiple times.

Keith Abraham: [45:07] I think a couple of dealership groups that I’ve been working with have used me every year for the last seven years. I always say to people, “You don’t get invited back because most dealership groups won’t tolerate [inaudible 00:45:19].”

Keith Abraham: [45:21] The first thing you do is if you like what I’ve said today, if this makes sense, then go to the people that organize your event and say, “Heard this guy. Listened to this podcast. Get him on the program.” Secondly is people can go to my website. Go to, log in to my blog.

Keith Abraham: [45:36] My blog is, I do a blog every week. Been doing that for the last seven or eight years. Haven’t missed a week. It’s Inspiration Information. There’s video, there’s quotes, and I mix it up every week. There’s that.

Keith Abraham: [45:48] You can connect with me on LinkedIn if you want. Some content that’s a little bit more deep as that’s Keith Abraham [CSP 00:45:55]. Then the other couple of things that I’m just introducing now, Fraser, is do a VIP day.

Keith Abraham: [46:03] A VIP day is, either you come to me in Brisbane, or I go to you, work with you and your team. We just fast track your business. Tell me what you want to conquer. Tell me what you want to accomplish. Let’s put a master plan in place. Then we follow it up.

Keith Abraham: [46:17] Then the final piece is that I run a group mentoring. We bring people together. 6-8 people in a group, and they hold each other accountable and facilitate that process. That’s a one day process. Once again, it’s in Brisbane.

Keith Abraham: [46:33] People got to get on a plane and come to me. You got a couple of different options there, from free to some cost, to significant investment. The people that I work with around master mind groups and VIP, they really need to be serious.

Keith Abraham: [46:51] They want to be people who feel like they’re stuck, or they feel like they want to go to the next level. They’re successful, but they want to become significant. They’re the people who I like working with, because I get the best results with them. They’ve already got the foundations in place. We just build upon that and really, not only fast track it, but just amplify their success.

Fraser Jack: [47:13] Good. Now, I’ve been involved in peer groups before, and got a tremendous value out of those groups. Are you wanting people to form their groups and come to you? Or is a group mentoring [inaudible 00:47:24] be part of a new group?

Keith Abraham: [47:26] Look, over the next couple of weeks I’ll put together an offer on my website around these two. I’ve just had this idea. Look, I thought about it for a long time. It’s one of those ways that people [inaudible 00:47:40] always saying to me, well, I’ve seen you at the conference.

Keith Abraham: [47:43] Nothing else is happening in my dealership group, but I want something a little bit more deeper. I side want the 60 or 90 minutes. I want something that’s a little bit more deeper.can you take me on that journey? Have that request for a while now. If you get asked enough, sooner or later you go, there’s an opportunity there.

Keith Abraham: [48:03] Opportunity to add some value to people on the journey. I think in particular now with planners and advisors, they’ve been [inaudible 00:48:11]. They’re a bit disillusioned and disappointed. They feel a little bit devalued in their expertise. I just think they’re too good of people to have those emotions and those feelings.

Keith Abraham: [48:20] I want to help on that journey.

Fraser Jack: [48:23] I was going to say, there is a lot of advisors out there going through, or having to go through, a massive transformation over the next few years. I think a lot of them are stuck in their position now, and not know which way to go and how to go, and where to go.

Fraser Jack: [48:37] [inaudible 00:48:37] is that the sort of thing you can work with them on?

Keith Abraham: [48:39] Yeah. Correct. See, here’s what I believe. I believe there’s lots of advisors who are successfully stuck in the industry. What I mean by that is too young to retire, and just don’t know how to change. They know they can be better. They know they can do better, achieve better.

Keith Abraham: [48:59] Be more and have more. But they just don’t know where to start. Yeah, stuck becomes because you’re in one success cycle, and you want to go to the next success cycle, but you’re not in the clarity around it.

Keith Abraham: [49:14] In between is this chasm of confusion where you’ve got indecision, where you’ve uncomfortable, where it’s inconvenient, and it’s unknown. To be able to get people to move from this, in essence, they’re masterful at a level of success, but they’re also stuck, to actually becoming the apprentice and becoming significant and moving forward.

Keith Abraham: [49:39] That’s the work that I’ve done with planners and advisors over the last 20 years. I’ve not always described it like that, but that’s exactly what I do. I just help the people that are successful, to really become significant and go to a level that was beyond what they ever thought possible.

Fraser Jack: [49:55] Yeah. Now, there’s a bit of talk at the moment around opportunities for those advisors. Where are they? How can they continue to be relevant in the business, and all those sorts of things. If they choose, or they don’t want to go and get the university degree, or what it might be, or do on the subjects, around basing themselves on that front end goals piece of the business.

Fraser Jack: [50:17] Getting those relationships happening and then having other people in their business that can do the actual financial planning piece. Do you see that happening? Do you ...

Keith Abraham: [50:26] Yeah. Look, I see a lot of planners and advisors ... Well, and I also see a lot of accountants and lawyers who are exceptional at rain making. They’re letting somebody else do the lower value paperwork.

Keith Abraham: [50:42] The $250 hour job versus the two and a half thousand dollar an hour job work. Become the rain maker. Most planners, a lot of planners and advisors are doing the prospecting, and gaining the referral, doing their statement of advice, sending it off to a [inaudible 00:51:00] then repitching it.

Keith Abraham: [51:03] Is that [inaudible 00:51:05] what could be? Maybe you’re, the model for your business is to put people in the top of the funnel, and then let somebody else do all the grinding. You do the finding and they do the grinding.

Fraser Jack: [51:20] Yeah. Yeah. Fantastic. Now, if you’re chatting to consumers, which I’m sure you do talk to real people, talk to humans. They’re thinking about getting advice and they say to you, “What should I do?” What tips can you give? Any advice, what would you say to them?

Keith Abraham: [51:31] You know what the first thing I would do is go and look for advisors that are educators. We’ve got videos online. They’ve written articles. They’ve got a book published. They’re providing value to you, as an expert and an authority.

Keith Abraham: [51:57] If they’re doing that, then I reckon then the people who would want to actually go and connect with and do business with, most advisors are not asking for referrals. They get referrals, but they don’t have a process in place.

Keith Abraham: [52:10] Obviously, we all talk about the referral’s the greatest compliment you can give to my business. When you refer me, but what I would be saying is if I’m a consumer is look for the people who are educating and go with them. They’re coming from a different angle.

Keith Abraham: [52:25] They’re going to talk less about your money and more about your goals. Really, that’s the conversation you might have.

Fraser Jack: [52:33] Yeah. Now, there’s a few different pathways here. New entrance into the advice space with younger advisors coming through and doing a bit of a professional year now. What advice do you give to people that are looking at coming into the industry?

Keith Abraham: [52:49] Well, you know the best thing? First thing, you want to get a mentor. Secondly, I would go and look at all the people who are masterful at it, and take from each of those people what they do, how they do it. There are people in the industry who are absolute unbelievably fantastic at gaining referrals.

Keith Abraham: [53:08] There are people in the industry that are absolutely unbelievably fantastic at prospecting. There are people who are absolutely, building repertoire. Educating, following up. They might not always be the same person.

Keith Abraham: [53:22] I would be going and modeling the people who are masterful at what they deliver. Whether that’s the message or the method, or the magic, and I would be doing that.

Fraser Jack: [53:38] Great.

Keith Abraham: [53:38] If that takes you a few steps back, so you can run forward, I reckon that’s a good time to be spend.

Fraser Jack: [53:46] Yeah. It’s probably a greater price for things to get done in that professional year. Now obviously, with advisors having to go through this transformation at the moment, what sort of ... You’ve given a lot of tips already, so thank you for that. What other tips would you give for those advisors?

Keith Abraham: [54:02] Look. For the one who’s going through the transformation, and it can be really easily get stuck around everything that’s happening to you, and I would be saying, control the controllables. Unless it’s outside the four walls of your business, and outside the six inches of your head, then it’s uncontrollab.e

Keith Abraham: [54:23] Just control your mindset and how you respond. Control the controllables as part of your business. The second thing I would be saying to them is make sure they got their true north articulated.

Keith Abraham: [54:36] Vision for the future, rather than a memory of the past. Getting really clear on what the business of their dreams is. Getting really clear on the reason why, because if you got a big enough reason why Fraser, you’ll either find a reason or find an excuse.

Keith Abraham: [54:54] If you don’t have a big enough reason why, any excuse will do. It’s my dealership group. It’s the government. It’s the economy. It’s the election. It’s what the media has said. Too hard, too cold, too much, too little. Unless you got a big enough reason why, because you got the vision, unless you got a big enough reason why, because you know what your true north is, I just think you’ll get bogged down in the distractions. My final message is feed the focus, starve the distractions.

Fraser Jack: [55:29] Yep. Yeah. I really, it really does resonate. I’ve heard you speak before around people that are retiring, as well. A journey, it’s a career, and having a purpose. Same for advisors looking to go through a transition.

Fraser Jack: [55:42] Treat it as a new career.

Keith Abraham: [55:44] Yeah.

Fraser Jack: [55:44] Good. Thank you. Now, final question. This one’s about you. If you could go back in time and give yourself some advice, where would you go? What would you say to yourself?

Keith Abraham: [55:53] I reckon there’s a couple things I would say to myself. I would humble myself and sit at the feet of a master, sooner. The second thing I would do is I would make sure that I created space and time to create and to transform.

Keith Abraham: [56:18] I think you can get busy being busy. I’ve been very, very busy over the time, and busy ... Look. In my industry I’m well regarded as having a very successful business. I think I would have been a lot further down the track if I would have taken a couple of steps back, so I could run forward.

Keith Abraham: [56:37] To be less busy. Create some of that space. I think the third thing for me is pick a niche. Whether it be a topic, an area of expertise, or an industry, and just stay in that lane. Look. Our world has changed so much. 20 years ago it was a bit different to travel anywhere in the world, or work anywhere in the world.

Keith Abraham: [57:11] Now, I mean, I can be east coast, the US, in 11 hours, 24 into London. I just got an email from a client of mien that I’m going back in June to work with their team over there. There’s having a major transformation. I mean, it’s just so easy.

Keith Abraham: [57:27] I was in South Africa last year, working with 4,000 people over there, over a weekend. It’s just so easy, but I would just pick a niche and go very, very deep in that niche.

Fraser Jack: [57:40] Right. Great. Thank you so much for all of your loads of wisdom. I really appreciate you coming on the show and sharing so much with the listeners. It’s been incredible. Thank you so much.

Keith Abraham: [57:49] You’re welcome. I appreciate the opportunity, and as I said, if anybody’s got a question, they can always email me. Keith@KeithAbraham.com.au. Visit my website, KeithAbraham.com. There’s books on there. There’s a blogs on there, there’s resources on there that can assist them.

Keith Abraham: [58:07] If people are interested in me speaking at an event or a conference, or working with some of their own clients, I’m happy to do that, as well.

Fraser Jack: [58:14] T’s actually really fantastic. I like your website. It’s really easy to navigate around.

Keith Abraham: [58:17] Thank you.

Fraser Jack: [58:19] Fresh looking, and there’s some great stuff on there. Like you said, you’re putting your blogs out every week. It’s always being refreshed and updated.

Keith Abraham: [58:26] Yeah. Good. I appreciate that. I love what you’re doing, and it’s great that you’re spreading the message around being a goal based advisor. I just think that’s a, I think that’s the best way going forward for a lot of planners and advisors, and create a point of difference that sets them apart.

Fraser Jack: [58:41] Correct. Thank you. Very good. Keith, thank you so much. I look forward to bumping into you at the next event and sharing a quick chat and a laugh.

Keith Abraham: [58:50] Thanks, Fraser. Nice chatting with you.

Fraser Jack: [58:51] All right. Cheers. Bye.

Fraser Jack: [58:54] If you haven’t already, I would like you to subscribe to the podcast on your podcast platform of choice. To continue the conversation, head over to our social media channels. We’ll catch you next time.


Disclaimer: This document is a transcription obtained through a third party. There is no claim to accuracy on the content provided in this document, and divergence from the audio file are to be expected. As a transcription, this is not a legal document in itself, and should not be considered binding to advice intelligence, but merely a convenience for reference.