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Podcast Transcript

Episode 34, Season 1

Renovating her advice business, with Amie Baker


Amie Baker: [00:00] With the online course I’m looking first of all to a fun and easy approach to understanding cash flow, and without it being a budget or a diet for money, just really simplify things and use my past experience and other characters through the process, understanding the foundation of importance.

Fraser Jack: [00:29] Hello and welcome to the goals based advice podcast, where I have conversations with pioneers with the new world of financial advice. I’m your host Fraser Jack and I want to thank you so much for tuning in today. A big shootout to all the feedback and reviews that I’ve received so far. If you’re enjoying this podcast please help me spread the word and share it with your friends and colleges, and leave me a review on iTunes or whichever platform you used to access. Now of course a big thank you to our supporting partner, Advice Intelligence, for powering this podcast.

Fraser Jack: [00:59] In this episode I chat with Amie Baker, now this is a raw and open chat with Amie, and egos were put aside and we allowed our vulnerability to shine through. Now Amie recently appeared on the XY Advisor podcast, but this recording was three months later and after she decided to pursue money behavioral coaching and the money coaching corse that she did. Not only did we cover some of her learnings for the past, but we chatted about how she renovating her business and what services she’ll be introducing to her new and existing clients, including behavioral financial coaching and online course. As I said, an open conversation with Amie that I’m sure you will appreciate, let’s hit play right now.

Fraser Jack: [01:46] Welcome to the show Amie.

Amie Baker: [01:46] Hey, thanks for having me.

Fraser Jack: [01:46] You’re very welcome, how have you been?

Amie Baker: [02:00] I’ve been good, lots going on, I can say busy but productive, which is good.

Fraser Jack: [02:06] Yeah, exactly busy isn’t it at the moment? Trying to cram in so much stuff. Do you just was to give us a quick overview of you at the moment, tell us about you and your business, and what you’re doing.

Amie Baker: [02:16] Well I am in the midst of facing some changes, changing a few things about how I do my business or believe in my service, basically renovating the business. Which has been a process, it’s taken longer than I expected and funnily enough there’s a lot of work going on in the background that I haven’t actually put it all in place. So I’m just sort of sifting through some ideas, but once I do there’s going to be some major changes. I’m actually sending out a blast email out to all my clients this afternoon, just to sort of really to hold me accountable, so watch this space scenario, because I just don’t want to procrastinate getting this happening any longer.

Fraser Jack: [02:58] Fantastic, so you’ve got a financial advice business in Sydney?

Amie Baker: [03:02] Yes, in Sydney, I do have clients in Melbourne, and Brisbane, and Gold Coast as well, but primarily here.

Fraser Jack: [03:11] And you have an office in Sydney as well, is that right? Or a workspace at the moment.

Amie Baker: [03:14] Yes, I have a workspace in Bridge Street, in Tankstream Labs.

Fraser Jack: [03:19] And tell us about your journey, let’s start at the beginning, your journey towards being an advisor, where did it all start for you?

Amie Baker: [03:29] Well it was kind of by accident, I didn’t actually grow up going, “Woo hoo I’m going to be a financial advisor”. I grew up wanting to be a performing artist; a singer, actor and that. So when I had to become a real adult and get real paying work, and that was actually when my son was born so fifteen years ago, I realized that singing gigs with a newborn wasn’t gonna cut it anymore.

Amie Baker: [03:57] He was twelve weeks old when I started my first job at St George Bank, and this is in the collections team, so a long story short I discovered that as I was calling to collect overdue money, for say credit cards or mortgages, I found every single excuse/story that I came across was actually preventable. It really became apparent to me that they were preventable with advice or understanding the financial product better, or understanding how to manage their money better. I worked out very quickly that I was terrible as a collections officers because I was sitting there trying to coach these clients, and realized that financial advice was the direction I should be going. Through the bank that’s where my career path started and I ended up in the wealth team not long after that, probably about six to twelve months after then.

Fraser Jack: [04:50] That’s a really interesting start, that debt collections piece, as you mentioned a lot of stories and a lot of, to me would be, a lot a heartbreak as well in there.

Amie Baker: [05:00] Yeah, look I guess where the foundation for my passion for insurance as well, St George Bank the way they introduce you to financial advice is that you had to start in an insurance team. When you’re dealing with people that are struggling to pay their mortgage because they’re sick, or they’re fighting cancer, or their husbands just passed away and he was the main bread winner and they’re looking at potentially selling the property. You realize that’s an important reason to have a life insurance policy or income protection/trauma cover. But then there was also scenarios of people going through divorce or just not actually understanding how to manage cash flow, I found that maybe it’s just me that it was just common sense or just basic, but it’s silly, for a lot of people it doesn’t come naturally. People do need to get direction on that sort of thing, I think where I am now, as an advisor, is that I make sure that that is foundationary advice regardless of whether if they come to my for superannuation or investment strategy. I need to understand where they’re at with their cash flow because it’s important that everything works, all the cogs in the world are working.

Fraser Jack: [06:11] Yeah, as you mentioned, definitely preventable situations, not in all cases but a lot of them are preventable situations and certainly finding an area where you can help people. So you came through the bank in a way that they trained you to be a risk advisor first and then onto financial advice?

Amie Baker: [06:25] That’s correct, yep.

Fraser Jack: [06:26] And then I guess there was a moment when you had to, I suppose, step out of the bank.

Amie Baker: [06:31] I did, now the reason for that originally was I was having children at the same time as studying and working, I was a bit crazy I don’t know how I did it I look back and go, “oh my god I was insane”. First baby I was back working at twelve weeks, second was four weeks, and that was because I was really determined to prove that I wanted this career path with the bank, so I went “I’m having a baby and I’ll be back in four weeks”. I don’t know how I managed to even remember anything back then.

Amie Baker: [06:57] Then eleven weeks after Brandon was born, my third child, but he was in and out of hospital. Though I was kicking KPIs and ticking all the boxes in regards to what was expected of me, I still felt an incredible amount of pressure to be present. So I was taking a lot of time off work and I wasn’t getting paid for that, but I still felt that pressure to be there and I had to make the call that I was going to take a sabbatical. I didn’t want to lose that position in case the real world, the safety net of the bank wasn’t going to work for me. Basically, I couldn’t give advice for that twelve months because it was a sabbatical, but I was allowed to do paraplanning.

Amie Baker: [07:41] So I set up a paraplanning business, more for risk because I found when you’re in an insurance team in a bank, you’re in an environment with a lot of the back off stuff is done for you. Underwriting and chasing signatures, and there’s a whole level of work that gets down behind the scenes. You’re just basically in front of the computer, you’re recommending the product and you do an application and it’s more set and forget. When you’re out in the real world, we all know, that there is a huge amount of work behind that to get things through pass underwriting. That’s basically what I did, and the setup of the insurance paraplanning business was more to get an advisor to get past those obstacles, to get the clients underwritten. That was a bit of an experience for me going out to a practice to realize how much more work is involved in an advise business, and it was successful because out of that a financial planning firm offered to create a role for me to run their insurance position. For me that was a stepping stone into getting into financial planning outside of the banking world, and also being in your independent space.

Amie Baker: [08:53] This was during the GFC, I was very aware of what was going on in the industry as well, and aware that there was a need for more self licensed businesses. That’s sort of where I wanted to go, and I got that opportunity pretty quickly.

Fraser Jack: [09:04] You set up your own business in the paraplanning space, so you were self employed, then when you joined that practice where you still self employed or were you working as an employee?

Amie Baker: [09:22] I was self employed, I contracted to them. I was promised equity, this is where the story goes a little pear shaped and life lessons were learnt. Well the paraplanning business also was another life lesson cause I had a business partner, we didn’t really set ourselves up properly in business planning, we didn’t price ourselves properly and as a result the relationship took a turn. The opportunity to work in this firm was taken up very quickly, it was a great exit from this paraplanning business.

Amie Baker: [09:54] Then I was promised equity in this other firm but they kept moving the goal post away from me, the income I was promised I didn’t get, it was a bit of a battle for me during this time, also I was going through divorce with three young kids, so a bit of a challenge. There was a lot of anger during that time and a lot of fighting, more from me trying to get them to agree with what we originally set out was that I was going to have equity in that insurance division, I’d built it from pretty much scratch, that didn’t turn out. So I walked away pretty much with nothing, quite bitter and also facing being a single parent as well. So going through my own financial hardship, and at that point there was a fire in my belly so I just went “if I can do it for them, I can do it for myself”, and that’s when I started the business that I am in now.

Fraser Jack: [10:51] It’s an incredible journey and learning phase that you went through, now there’s sort of three areas there, and I’d love to get a couple of tips or a tip for each one, I think the people listening would love to hear that too. Tips around going into business with a business partner, tips around pricing and tips around the conversation that you had when setting up an equity style and doing some [inaudible 00:11:12].

Amie Baker: [11:14] Yeah well those tips I learnt the hardest way that anyone can learn. I think when you’re starting up a business, especially with a business partner, you do need an agreement between you both. You will need a clear understanding of what your roles are and your responsibilities. You need to set times each week to be held accountable to the other and to the business and stick to that, it’s really imperative that you, and also set goals between you both.

Amie Baker: [11:43] In terms of pricing, really understanding what the costs are of setting up the business. What your personal values are and what you want to get out of it, and then work from there because we didn’t really put that in place, we didn’t have an idea of how much it was going to cost in terms of our personal time, as well as our intellectual property. All of that stuff needs to me calculated before you take it to the market, because then you’ve got to work out then what the profit will be. That wasn’t done at all, so we basically under priced ourselves, undervalued ourselves and in doing so then the resentment kicks in, then the arguments kick in, there was no management of expectations between either of us as business partners.

Amie Baker: [12:32] They’re the key things, really set out your expectations. Obviously have a drive and a passion for what you’re doing because that’s the most important key to success is, if you’re looking at building a business to make money and to have that as the end goal the journey’s going to be a challenge. You’ve gotta have some drive, the fire in your belly, something that’s really am incredible why, it’s often digging, it’s often the service it’s someone to benefit. Because it gives you that good feeling as well when you’re giving, you’re delivering. You’ve got to be passionate about that, they’re the key things, finding that passion that will get you out of bed every morning before the money comes in.

Amie Baker: [13:13] Cause there’s a lot of work, in my experience, it’s basically three businesses. There’s one being successful, there’s a huge amount of work that gets done that you don’t get paid for or given any thanks for. You really need to have an incredible amount of drive and passion first. I guess you have to have that aligned with your business partner, if you are going into partnership. Understand what their drive is and their values, cause they need to compliment one another.

Fraser Jack: [13:45] You’re in this position where you had some pains and you really got to pick yourself up, and you’ve got to have a purpose and a drive and a passion, but really having to start again. Did that give you an opportunity to start with the business you wanted, with those learnings in mind?

Amie Baker: [14:01] Yes, absolutely. That will always shift, so revisiting a business plan and revisiting your purpose through visiting your values and why is important. Something that I have to admit, I hadn’t done until recently for some time, cause you get so caught up in your day to day operations of the business. I keep my books of my to-do lists and my diaries, and I recently revisited them. Having you asked that question, I went back to that and one of things that I had back then was that I had complete autonomy, that I was completely in charge of the discission making when it came to my business. That also meant, in charge of when I was going to say yes to a client/no to a client, stick to what my belief systems. Obviously, being an advisor, and anyone who’s an advisor whose listening to this can resonate with, it’s so much easier to have a client who is prepared to take on advise. When you start off a business often your desperate to actually just to get money through the door and I had made those mistakes and every time I did it was actually not within my true intensions.

Amie Baker: [15:15] It would be hard, I felt like I was pushing weights up a hill, it was just a nightmare for me when I wasn’t sticking to my values, that was important, when I started. I also liked the concept of writing my own process, I’m process driven. Setting up my own APL, basically doing it my way, setting up my ideal week all of the key things of managing a business, I liked it I was completely in charge and over it all.

Fraser Jack: [15:49] When say that, what sort of advice were you providing?

Amie Baker: [15:54] Cashflow modeling.

Fraser Jack: [15:54] Yep.

Amie Baker: [15:54] Insurance, superannuation, so I kept it really simple. Most of my clients would come to me because I was really an insurance specialist, I found myself attracting that. But there were also clients that I would only purely work on with cashflow and then I would introduce, through that, the importance of understanding a long term goal, that would be Segway into super advice, salary sacrificing if it’s required, looking at what their situation was as well, and of course then insurance, just the basic fundamentals of that financial advice. Also, I found myself attracting clients that were like me, so my age, living in Sydney; very expensive lifestyle living in Sydney, the cost of living is just incredible especially when back then I had three children under five or six years old at the time. Childcare costs and education costs, high rent and just a desire to have an actual Sydney lifestyle. That also helped me with the cashflow stuff, cause a lot of people would be earning six figure incomes but have absolutely nothing to show for it.

Fraser Jack: [17:10] Yeah, this advice is a really good foundation, isn’t it? The foundation or being a planner, you need to have these three things sorted out to start with you.

Fraser Jack: [17:18] Now you built that business and lets sort of move forward a little bit in the journey, you’ve recently done some work in expanding that and making some changes to that, tell us about those changes.

Amie Baker: [17:30] Yes, well prior to this weekend, I’ve been looking at ways of how I can improve the service I was offering with my clients, in terms of their relationship with money and helping them understand their behaviors around money, understand their money blocks and what not. So I’ve done a lot of research and about late last year I came across the Certified Money Coaching Course, [Lee Showdell 00:18:02] had done it, and had posted something about that on LinkedIn. I looked into a few others that were offered around the traps, but that one resonated more with me than others and I’m really happy that I actually decided to go ahead and get involved with the course.

Amie Baker: [18:20] But prior to that I read lots of books, the concept of phenology interests me. I’ve been reading Misbehaving and Nudge, and other behavioral economic books some time back. I think in the back of my mind I really wanted to introduce him to my people so I started looking at this back in 2016 even. It’s been a bit of a process of how do I actually implement this or being these conversations to the table with my clients, because as an advisor there’s nothing worse than seeing your client come back to you every year and they haven’t actually kicked any of the goals. We can put in place a financial plan but unless I’m actually there coaching them all the time, and that means looking at their behaviors, looking at why they are making decisions, looking at where they’re sabotaging, looking at what their money blocks are perhaps which is where their causing, where there sabotaging.

Amie Baker: [19:16] I felt like I wasn’t really getting a far as we could with a lot of the clients, especially with cash management stuff, clients would go “I’d love to have a safety net of ‘x’ amount of dollars, and take my family away on a holiday, and have no credit cards”, and I could see this is all doable, looking at what they earned, looking at what their surplus cashflow is, getting them there sometimes took a couple of years and I knew that we could expediate that if we had the right tools. So searching for these tools has taken me some time, now I’m on that journey of being able to implement that into the business.

Fraser Jack: [19:57] So you found the course, and you’ve just done the course over the weekend, now I’m obviously passionate about goals based advice and goals based advice coaching will often lend themselves to work together in that space. Actually let’s start with the course itself, what was the sort of things that you went through over the weekend in the course that you got a lot out of?

Amie Baker: [20:22] Okay, the weekend was only two modules, there’s several modules we’ve got to do online through a zoom classroom, but the process that we went through over the past three days, which is Friday, Saturday, Sunday, was what exactly the client goes through. So the first process is, we write our money bios, so the history of my first memory all the way through to now of my experience of money and obviously all the relationships in which that has effected. It brings up issues between my ex husband and I, brings up issues between my Mother and I, brings up issues with how I’ve conducted my business and my new relationships and friendships. We go through that process, the money bios, we then can then identify some of the emotional words that I can place around money, so I put that up, and emotional words that I can place with my Mother and my Father, and in my case my Stepfather and how they’ve influenced my attitude of money through experience.

Amie Baker: [21:33] Then we look at, we get a better picture of what these names or words actually represent in terms of archetype, so the warrior, fool, victim, the innocent, the magician, so there’s quite a few archetypes there that help us name, or label, behaviors. So I can then go through my money bio and realize that I’ve picked up certain behaviors that really depicts say the victim or the warrior, you know? So looking back, for me, when I was going through the transition of being married to a single parent and at the same time starting a business, which I don’t encourage anyone to do it was very stressful. If you like a certain lifestyle you’re not going to have that for that period of time, because I was so consigned through that period of time, having say that I learnt some incredible skills, and the inner warrior in me came about because I had to survive.

Amie Baker: [22:31] Then also, when I was learning these incredible skills of being quite a warrior, learning how to practice what I preach with my budgeting and making ends meat with the little that I had and pushing through and being innovative with my business and my household. There was also parts of me that became the victim, because I was going “oh my god this is so hard”, and blame and get angry and all that sort of stuff. Then there was times were I was absolutely desperate to get the clients, so then getting the wrong clients there was the fall. So understanding you start seeing these behaviors, you can actually name them. So putting these archetypes in we’re labeling them, when you start labeling them then you can start, as you get a good understanding of the past, then as you’re going into your future and today you can already see a certain behavior pops up, and you go “uh there’s my victim”, and you can stop it. I don’t want to be that, I can be the warrior here, I can just change the attitude, change the way I’m talking, change the behavior.

Amie Baker: [23:39] The coaching process then, which I’m going to be learning from my understanding is in teaching once you’ve got a clear understanding of those factors then coach the clients to weed out some of the negatives. It’s all good to have some of the archetypes, I’m not saying we don’t want the victim, we don’t want the innocence, or the fool, these actually have some positive qualities as well. They help us survive and go forward, and grow and develop as well, but it’s how we understand how those negative behaviors come in and how we can remove that. We’re delving into dealing with coaching with people who have addictions even, online shopping perhaps, or gambling, or other things that they’re doing, or food issues, or whatever the case is where we see, as advisors, where people are spending their money. We can see potential issues that are arising.

Amie Baker: [24:37] This is going to empower me to empower my clients to help get them really where they want to go with their financial plans with their goals and their lifestyles. It’s not just about money in terms of dollars it’s all areas, it’s quite a hedonistic approach at the end of the day, really money’s just quite an energy draw it’s how we approach it, it’s how we treat it.

Fraser Jack: [25:05] We’re all certainly just a bundle of experiences, aren’t we? And we all can’t have different experiences so we’re all different in that way, it’s incredible. You went through that course as the consumer, as a client, what difference made to you, you’re fresh out of the course, you’re now sitting on the side of the fence as a consumer being through this process, what changes has it made in your life already?

Amie Baker: [25:34] Besides looking back through my history, and more and more of that’s coming back, more memories are starting to arrive, and I go “ahhh I get what I was doing there now”. It’s given me an incredible amount of clarity on why I have made the decisions I’ve made, why I behave a certain way I behave, where my sabotages are. Yeah, going forward, I think it’s increased me awareness, I am aware that there is a lot more work to do. Having said that, just the first step in the right direction is having your awareness awoken, I should say, cause when you’re not aware you don’t know and at least now I have that insight.

Amie Baker: [26:20] It’s actually a perfect time for me because I’m actually at the process of renovating my business, looking at changing the way I serve me clients, what I charge my clients, I’m looking at now, more the passion behind it and what I want from that from myself, understanding what will motivate me. A lot of people go, success has gotta be like millions of dollars or I’ve gotta be public speaking in front of thousands of people, that’s success, but it’d had me really think about what success is to me as well and what my true motivators are. It’s hard to explain but it’s definitely given my an incredible amount of clarity. I think going forward, there’s a lot of work to do, I’m aware we’re all basket cases. I’ve now seen my history and my archetypes and there’s been constant battle in my history with my little archetypes, warrior and martyr playing out each other consistently. I’ve kinda of kept myself in a very safe place for all these years because of my attitudes around my money and my attitudes around success and fear around success.

Amie Baker: [27:44] So going forward, I think with some extra work, and I’ve obviously got more modules to go, I’m also wanting to reach out to Lee and get her to work with me, so we can weed out some of these issues, which will give me more room to be able to grow.

Fraser Jack: [28:02] You know I love this idea too that you mentioned, we’re all basket case, and it’s true it’s so true. We’ve all made stupid decisions with money in the past and yes we’re advisors and yes we’re supposed to know better. We’re all professionals, so we can’t talk about it, which I think is a bit of a problem as well, we’re supposed to be gurus in this space and to just be able to turn around and go “you know what”. The authenticity comes for your clients when they see that you’ve been through this process and you had to fix you’re own mistakes first. I think that’s a very powerful to come from, from your clients point of view, when they hear that you’ve been through this process and you actually had all these issues that you brought up, I think it’s a great place.

Amie Baker: [28:50] Actually, 100% I agree with you, when we’re authentic people see it. First of all you’ve said two things that resonate with me, we as advisors often build the picture that we’re hiding behind, I think we do need to have more forums where we’re really open and honest with each other, and in fact vulnerable. In that space where we were with Deborah and Lee on the weekend, most of us were advisors and it was often a space where we were open, we were vulnerable and there were some incredible heartfelt conversations and it was extremely refreshing. There was an incredible amount of energy because of that when you just take the mask off.

Amie Baker: [29:37] I’m reading a book called ‘Dare to lead’, I’m just starting, and one of the foundations she brings up is to be vulnerable, a good leader is vulnerable. I think when you are coaching, when you are giving advice you are leading and we need to be more vulnerable with our clients. That’s a lesson I certainly got out of this experience over the weekend as well.

Fraser Jack: [30:03] Fantastic, now let’s set up the perfect business, cause you mentioned you were renovating, let’s talk about the renovated business. What’s this new renovated business?

Amie Baker: [30:13] Certainly I think going forward once I’m certified, as a certified money coach, I would like to introduce the concept of money coaching before I introduce any financial advice. I feel like the client’s success will actually come out of them understanding their behaviors and where they need to, where we all need to improve, but obviously tailor it to their needs and then take it from there, if that’s the direction then we got with financial planning. What I’d like to do is also introduce this service to all my existing clients.

Amie Baker: [30:47] Going forward, this is something that scares me to a point, because it is quite daunting initially and I’ve done it before but I’m going to be doing it on a greater scale is, I’m going to go through and contact all of my clients and actually chat with them about what I’m doing and if they’re not at all open to this kind of concept I’m gonna have to move them forward, send them off somewhere else. Because this has made me really clear on the kind of business that I’m wanting to build and it is a business that is driven from the heart, it’s driven from a place of love really. It comes down to I can’t see my clients driving if they’re not open with me, it’s actually going to change from being financial advice to more coaching or counseling as such. They really do need to be open to that.

Amie Baker: [31:49] I am also introducing online courses, this was something I was doing before I was doing the money coach, I just started writing some more educational or financial education courses, but I’m also going to thread in some of the learnings that I’ve had from the weekend.

Fraser Jack: [32:06] Brilliant, I have to say, brilliant. Now tell me, let’s just walk the client through this journey, they’ve heard about you, they may have gone through or checked around on your website or whatever it may be, and then they’re going to come in to see you and we’re going to start on money coaching. How long will it take for them to get through that?

Amie Baker: [32:28] The initial is about four appointments, four hours, we could do an intensive day, or we could do it over a period of time. But this is stuff that I’m learning, so I might be corrected with some of the things you are asking me here, because I’m not yet qualified. My understanding is it’s about four sessions initially. Then that also will bring up things that they need to work on and so there might be other sessions going forward to get that all ironed out. At that point, and I remember doing a webinar with Deborah last year, she sort of said a lot of her coaches are advisors, and it’s a Segway into introducing a financial plan thereafter, which sounds common sense to me as well.

Fraser Jack: [33:14] So about a four hour session, really looking back and understanding their past, which is perfect for an advisor, it’s the whole [inaudible 00:33:22]. Then you go through, you understand, and you help them with some of those, and you show them how those past experiences changed their discission making. Then do you start looking at their goals and objectives, looking at their goals and space? They’re all part of the four hours or are that new?

Amie Baker: [33:40] No, that’s totally separate, so it’s actually four different sessions because it’s quite intense, it’s quite an emotional journey for them. I do believe some people do a day, but most coaches do over a four week period, then after you do the goals and what not, so your not actually really going through. Your fact find perse, in terms of what their assets and liabilities and your cashflow looks like, that’s not part of this at all. This is just about the behaviors and attitudes and experience and what not.

Fraser Jack: [34:22] Okay, then obviously you have to do the fact find process, so we’re talking five meetings prior to bios is that what we’re looking at?

Amie Baker: [34:36] It could be, it depends. The initial part is definitely four.

Fraser Jack: [34:38] We’re talking the hypothetical at this point because you’re still building it. How are you going to charge that along the way, by the way?

Amie Baker: [34:45] The beautiful thing is there is many that have gone before me, so all of this is taught to you through the Certified Money Coaching Course. There’s obviously guidelines, but at least you kind of understand what the community are charging. That’s really nicely packaged for you, just sort of when you’re ready you can jump in and get going. Which is nice, because in a financial planning world I found I’m constantly asking other advisors what are they doing, and how to work out what’s the right fit for me. Also, we’ve got Lee, I’m going to be tapping on her shoulder a bit and just saying “what are you doing with this” and “how are you doing that”, we’re lucky to have her here.

Fraser Jack: [35:35] That’s fantastic, then you’ll go through the advice process. Then you mentioned the ongoing coaching, how often would you want to be seeing your coaching clients per year? Obviously the coaching, to me, you probably do the coaching and have it, and cashflow and advice piece sort of at the same meeting for ongoing reviews, but how long and how often?

Amie Baker: [35:57] I think it really comes down to the individual, it’s quite a personal thing. Some people are open to working on themselves and we’ll go and [inaudible 00:36:11], you might do Kinesiology, or Hypnotherapy, or go and see counseling and what not, as well as seeing their money coach. It really comes down to what their issues are, we might be dealing with someone who has addiction, so that might need more intensive work. Then there might be someone who actually really gets their head around this, kind of goes “okay, I recognize all of my archetypes and I know where my strengths are now and I have some clear direction”, they go off on their own and work on that by themselves and when they hit a hurdle then they book an appointment with me.

Amie Baker: [36:49] I think it really it is a different approach to how we do our review meetings as advisors and I mean obviously we’re not dictatored to by a level of compliance within this space of coaching, but I think it’s actually far more hands on than even advice. I think when you actually understand the details of someones behaviors and what not, you probably want to be there more often then just seeing them once a year. I think that will also be changing the review process for me quite incredibly to be honest with you, I’d be looking at far more catch ups. With that said, I’d probably include the coaching fee into the ongoing service fee and obviously break that up in my SLA. All this is thinking out loud by the way-

Fraser Jack: [37:49] Yeah, yeah that’s fine.

Amie Baker: [37:49] It’s new to me.

Fraser Jack: [37:50] That’s fine, you mentioned before that you were sending an email blast out to your clients, letting them know that you’re doing all this stuff to hold you accountable, it sounds like you’ve got a lot of work to do over the next short space of time.-

Amie Baker: [38:02] Yeah.

Fraser Jack: [38:03] You also mentioned an online courses, which I love, I love online courses and bringing some together myself, what are you doing with the online courses, and what sort of topics are you looking at putting out?

Amie Baker: [38:24] Okay, with the online courses I’m looking first of all to a fun and easy approach to understanding cashflow, and without it being like a budget or a diet for money, just really simplify things and use my past experience and other characters through the process, understanding the foundation of importance. I say foundation because I think insurance is imperative to anyone who wants to get ahead in life, because you don’t know what’s going to hit them at any point in time. So the importance of insurance and how to shop around for that if you aren’t getting/seeking advice. Obviously encouraging people to seek advice, but also what you should be looking for when they’ve got an insurance policy within their super fund, and what they should be looking at with their super. So a bit of a how to do it yourself financial plan guide really, and then obviously then my concept, and this is just all written out on paper I haven’t actually started building this at this point.

Amie Baker: [39:33] This podcast is going to really kick my butt and make me more accountable because I’m now telling everybody, I’ve been saying I’m going to do this for so long, so now I really have to. I’ve been writing all this stuff for so long. Basically, the concept is, there’s a lot out there and I’m not reinventing the wheel, there are a lot of coaching courses out there a lot of them are doing it very, very well. But I think what we as advisors, anyone who are doing courses online, need to understand is your tribe will find you, you will find them. What one person is doing in the course may not resonate with another, so I guess it’s coming down to how they resonate with me, if they are going to learn that from me then that’s where their home is.

Amie Baker: [40:20] I’m not reinventing the wheel in respect to do it yourself financial planning, I mean we’ve got the barefoot investor that’s done an actual book and there’s a lot of great advice practices that I know of that are doing this, but I’m doing this from my vision. I’m having it tiered so obviously we’re doing an intro course, which is going to be free, it’s easy, it’s fun, and I think I really want to put the ‘fun’ word around things, because often money, in a lot of people that I come across in my experience of doing it for so many years, is that money is a pain point for a lot of people and causes a lot of stress. So if you can actually flip that and actually go if you understand that money is another form of energy in some respect, and it is something that we can have a good relationship with or a negative relationship with, then it can be an enjoyable thing when you take control. Lee’s business was about wellness, its similar concept that I’m coming from is that the courses that I want to create should be fun and should be about improving their entire lives holistically. We put a lot of emphases on money and status symbol and our personal currencies and things. It’s about addressing all of that stuff.

Fraser Jack: [41:42] Fantastic, now it’s been incredible journey, obviously, for you and you’ve obviously got a long way to go and, as you mentioned, you’ve got a lot of stuff out there now so this tribe can keep you accountable. What are some of the tips you would give to consumers coming through into this space?

Amie Baker: [42:02] Coming into advice, getting advice?

Fraser Jack: [42:05] Yeah, and into coaching as well.

Amie Baker: [42:07] Okay, first and foremost they need to really resonate with the person they’re getting advice or coaching from. I say this to my clients that our first meeting is a bit like a job interview, because I don’t see this as a set and forget process it’s an ongoing relationship. If I’m successful and they’re successful we will be working together for a very long time, so we really need to have a really positive relationship and a relationship where they can be really open and vulnerable in as well, and feel secure in being in that space.

Fraser Jack: [42:41] Fantastic, thank you. Now if you’re giving tips to a younger advisor, or somebody coming through, or somebody starting out on their journey now, what sorts of tips would you give to that person?

Amie Baker: [42:50] Looking back, I think being clear on what your motivation is, and what your why is, where your passion lies, because without that, we have now been doing this fifteen years in this industry, we’ve been hit in so many directions along the way and it does actually jolt you in terms of why you’re doing what you do. If you’ve got clear, transparent intentions, apart from a source of income, then you’ll be successful.

Fraser Jack: [43:25] And obviously you had your fire in your belly, if you like, to me that felt-

Amie Baker: [43:30] The fire in my belly.

Fraser Jack: [43:30] Yeah. To me that feels a bit like it was helping of one of those clients from the very beginning that had preventable situations.

Amie Baker: [43:41] Yes.

Fraser Jack: [43:41] Now if you could give yourself some advice, if you go back in time and give yourself some tips and advice, have a do over, where would you go back to and what would you say to yourself?

Amie Baker: [43:59] You got this, you can do this. I have had many times where I feel like I’m, if you could put yourself in a cartoon space, I would be in the corner shaking and trembling going, “what the hell am I doing here?” I think I would be telling myself to spend less time in the corner freaking out and just getting on with it because I can do it.

Fraser Jack: [44:14] Fantastic, thank you so much for coming on and sharing your journey, your story and you know your deepest thoughts arounds, and pain points with everybody today, and I know people are going to get some good stuff out of it. Thank you so much.

Amie Baker: [44:27] Thank you for your time, thank you.

Fraser Jack: [44:31] If you haven’t already, I’d like you to subscribe to the podcast on your podcast platform of choice, and to continue the conversation head over to our social media channels, we’ll catch you next time.


Disclaimer: This document is a transcription obtained through a third party. There is no claim to accuracy on the content provided in this document, and divergence from the audio file are to be expected. As a transcription, this is not a legal document in itself, and should not be considered binding to advice intelligence, but merely a convenience for reference.