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Podcast Transcript

Episode 37, Season 1

What consumers want, CoreData's advice statistics, with Jason Andriessen


Jason Andriesse: [00:00] Where we have shown that active advice relationship means that clients make better financial decisions today, and that has a positive impact on their wealth.

Fraser Jack: [00:17] Hello and welcome to the Goals Based Advice podcast, where I have conversations with pioneers of the new world of financial advice. I’m your host, Fraser Jack, I want to thank you for tuning in today. If you’re enjoying this podcast, please help me spread the word and share with your friends and colleagues. I’d also like to thank our supporting partner, Advice Intelligence, for powering this podcast, check out adviceintelligence.com. In this episode I chat with Jason Andriesse, who’s the Managing Director of CoreData. We’ll be chatting stats and proof points about what’s going in the industry both now and into the future. We chat about the value advisors provide and what consumers think of advice, in fact, what consumers want from advisors and the choices that advisors need to make now, or sooner at least, rather than later.

Fraser Jack: [01:04] Now, I’m a real nerd for stats, and Jason has them by the bucketful, so let’s kick off my chat now, with Jason.

Fraser Jack: [01:22] Welcome to the show, Jason.

Jason Andriesse: [01:24] Hi Fraser, happy to be here.

Fraser Jack: [01:29] It’s very good to have you here, mate. Do you want to start with an overview of what you’re doing at the moment?

Jason Andriesse: [01:34] Yeah, thanks Fraser. So I’m Managing Director of CoreData, CoreData is a market research data analytics consultancy that specializes in financial services, and the fascinating realm of how customers make decisions.

Fraser Jack: [01:53] This is a really fascinating subject, I love the data analytics side of it. I love seeing some of the stats that you guys pull up. It actually amazes me how many consumers you get to speak to, and you get to interview.

Jason Andriesse: [02:09] Yeah, so there are various parts of our business, but a really interesting part of our business is our consumer panel and our professional panel, and we engage those different panels with content. So actually, CoreData has a very cool lifestyle magazine called Hunter and Bligh, and we work hard at tasting lots of different steaks, and have conversations around where to get the best whiskey and craft beer, and we engage our consumers like that. The quality of the consumer database means that the questions that we ask them are answered better and we get more in touch.

Fraser Jack: [02:52] Very good. So it sounds to me like advisors need to have whiskey and craft beer in their foyers, and then they can start attracting your target market.

Jason Andriesse: [03:00] Exactly.

Fraser Jack: [03:01] Now, do you want to give us a bit of an overview of your journey towards now? Because I know it’s sort of, it’s really interesting to me so I know it’ll be interesting to our listeners.

Jason Andriesse: [03:11] Yeah, thanks Fraser. So, I am grounded in financial advice, I was a financial planner seeing clients for six years, and found that a really enjoyable part of my career. For about 10 years after that I was a leader of financial planners, and then moved into customer experience and marketing, seeking to engage consumers in financial advice. I was Chief Customer Officer of a major super fund for about six years, now. Now I’m doing similar sorts of things, helping others do it at CoreData.

Fraser Jack: [03:58] Very good, and very interesting. Like you said, interesting career, all the things that I like, advice, the marketing side, and then seeing how the larger groups work. Then also this part that fascinates me, the data side and what consumers really think. Now, just on this idea of consumers, obviously everything is driven, as you mention, by interviewing and asking consumers. What are the sort of things that you guys have been working on lately?

Jason Andriesse: [04:29] So, the past 18 months has been very much a time of upheaval and transition in financial services with the Royal Commission. It’s not just the Royal Commission, but the Royal Commission has been kind of overwhelming. A lot of the work we have been doing is we’ve been helping financial advisors, financial advice licensees make meaning of the environment, understand what’s happening with trust, what’s happening with community expectations, what’s happening in the regulatory environment, what are the trends, and helping them define what success looks like in the new world. There’s never been a better time to be listening to your customers and keeping an eye out on the external environment to know what to do next.

Fraser Jack: [05:27] Yeah, obviously so much going on from our internal point of view, and just to get a real perspective of what our customers and future customers, the consumers that aren’t getting advice yet, what they’re thinking about our industry. Obviously I’ve seen some stats around this as well, and it feels like it’s not great news for advisors.

Jason Andriesse: [05:51] Yeah, so the challenge is there, right? The community is angry by what it has seen with the Royal Commission. I think we need to walk up to that. The Royal Commission was always going to be difficult for financial services because its mandate was to look at bad behavior and plenty of it came out, right? It is very clear to us, the research that we have done, that the community wants to see change, and the community actually feels like the Royal Commission’s final recommendations didn’t go far enough. Trends for people in the community think it didn’t go far enough and they want to see change now, and they want to see change implemented.

Jason Andriesse: [06:40] They want to see a very clear message, Fraser, separation of advice and product, which is a challenge for the financial advice industry, because vertical integration comes in lots of different forms. It’s not just the major institutions with products seeking to distribute products, that’s kind of the easy way to think of vertical integration, but the super fund’s are all vertically integrated, as they get their advisors or the people working for them trying to get people into the retirement phase, it’s vertical integration, right? And even in the shift to independents that we have seen, financial advisors taking control of their careers, a lot of them are making product recommendations and participating in the products part of the value chain with managed accounts. So, vertical integration comes in different forms, and the community wants to see a clear separation. They want advice to stand on its own two feet and they don’t want advisors to be paid more for shifting money from one product to another.

Fraser Jack: [07:52] Yeah, it’s a really interesting part isn’t it, with regards to the vertical integration piece. I don’t know what the answer is there, because a lot of the time that integration has subsidized advice and made it affordable. I don’t know, what’s the answer? How do we solve this?

Jason Andriesse: [08:17] So you’re absolutely right. The long term play, and the smart thinking financial advisor would listen to the community and listen to their clients, and if the clients want to see a change to the way that advice is provided, then we should be listening, right? And we are seeing, with the ending of grandfather commissions, we are seeing the economics of advice change, right across the value chain. You’re absolutely right, through the history of financial advice there has been subsidization across the chain, and financial planners have not had to face the full cost of licensee support services, and clients haven’t had to face the full cost of advice. Into the future, they will, so that creates challenges and it means that financial planners need to change the way they work.

Jason Andriesse: [09:17] I think what we’ll see is two types of strategy. So, I think financial planners will, for the first time ever, really have to concentrate on who they are serving, what their unique value proposition is, what can they genuinely do differently to others? The rich clients are a crowded state, so I think that will look like financial planners specializing more and really differentiating their services. And when they differentiate that means that it’s easier to articulate the value of advice, and happy to come back to that, because there’s plenty of evidence around the value of advice, financial planners just aren’t that good at expressing it.

Jason Andriesse: [10:04] But we should also be looking at the economics of our business and seeking to build efficiency, and there will be those advisors that are able to really keep their costs safe down, but it’s going to look a lot different to the way it’s been done the last 10, 20 years.

Fraser Jack: [10:25] So a massive change, product and advice separated. Now, you mentioned efficiencies there, that’s probably a good angle for us to chat about. How can we make the high touch advice more scalable, how can we get efficiency, what sort of things the consumers actually wanting to do? Because I know robo came and didn’t really make an impact. Let’s talk about the consumers themselves, what do they want in this space?

Jason Andriesse: [10:56] Yeah. So it’s always good to start with the consumers, right? Buying behavior has changed in every aspect of our lives, and our financial advice, to be frank, hasn’t kept up. When you look at studies of the best CX experience, you don’t think financial advisors, you don’t see different patterns in the mix of the best customer experience, right? They’re just not there at all. They haven’t had to innovate, and now they do. We live in a world where we like to interact with the businesses we deal with, according to our preferences. And sometimes we just want to do our own research while we’re watching a movie on our laptop, and sometimes we want to speak someone, sometimes we want to meet face-to-face

Jason Andriesse: [11:47] We’ve done research on that, and what we know is that 97% of people manage their life online, almost everyone, right? You can discount the 3% who don’t. So all of us manage our lives online, and all of us want an omni-channel experience, and that’s regardless of our age. We’ve got this bias that we think only young people really embrace digital, that’s absolutely not true, and in fact research we show is that Generation Y, the millennials, actually prefer face-to-face more than people my age, Generation Xers, which is interesting, right? The older, even the pre-baby boomers like to interact online. But the one thing we do have in common is that when things get really complex, we like to meet face-to-face with someone we trust.

Jason Andriesse: [12:55] So, you talked about robo-advice before, the anticipation of robo-advice taking over the world. It’s not going to look like what’s been compensated. It’s going to be financial planners who embrace a multi-channel customer experience who get their customer experience right, whether it’s face-to-face, whether it’s over the phone, whether it’s digital, whether it’s tracking, chatbots, whatever it might be, meeting the client where they’re at and being able to integrate all of that. Now, that’s harder than it sounds, but it’s always getting easier, right? The technology is improving, and there are some options there.

Fraser Jack: [13:39] From all the research I’ve seen, and of course some of it’s been yours anyway, was like you said, there’s 97% of people who want to manage their lives online, to a degree where they want to have some say in some visual aspect of it. That sort of empowers them to take ownership in their lives, but then as you mentioned, a lot of the time when it comes to the bigger decision-making part then they want a human, to validate.

Jason Andriesse: [14:09] Yeah, that’s right. Very few people want to see a human every time they interact, that is an old-fashioned idea. People want to be served efficiently, and they don’t want to have to get in their car and drive to your office every time. But they’re willing to when things are complex, and they’re willing to from time to time. But if you can supplement that within an active advice relationship where you’re able to provide updates, provide decision support in other ways, whether it’s tracking or whatever it might be, that’s the answer to that. And it reduces our cost base, improves the customer experience, improves the decisions they make, more convenient for them, but it reduces our cost to serve so it means that we’re able to price more competitively and everyone wins.

Fraser Jack: [15:04] The whole inefficiency piece drives me insane as a consumer, and the fact that advisors have to get their consumers, their clients, to pay for these inefficiencies. It’s just not acceptable is it, to be in inefficient in an advice business, especially in financial services where we’re arguably one of the richer occupations around.

Jason Andriesse: [15:30] Yeah. Well, we’ve kind of been able to get away with it, and we’ve been able to run our businesses as financial advisors, the economics have worked even without really pushing the efficiency. We’ve been able to work the same work the previous generation did, to be frank with you. And because of the information asymmetry, where we know so much more than the client, they don’t know what to ask, they find it hard to compare services. It’s been okay and we’ve been able to get by, and some financial advisors have done very well in that environment, but things are changing and financial advisors need to recognize that and get the front foot and make changes. And change is really hard.

Fraser Jack: [16:23] Yeah. I also feel that a lot of advisors have struggled at times with the idea of presenting, and you sort of mentioned this earlier, their value. The value that they bring to the client, not so much the clients that they’ve got now, but even more so with FDS coming in and also new clients coming through, just really presenting the value of advice and how and why somebody’s who’s not getting advice, what’s the value in it for them, why they should move towards advice.

Jason Andriesse: [16:55] It’s a great question. So, existing clients as you say of advisors don’t need convincing, really. They understand the value they receive, they really value an active relationship with a financial planner, and in spite of the Royal Commission, everything that’s happened, they still trust their financial planner, they still think their financial planner provides great service, and they think their financial planner does it at a competitive price. Yes, we should be investing in our existing clients and making sure that they stay the course, but we really need to turn our attention to an increasingly cynical mass market of people who don’t have an active advice relationship with the financial sector, right? And there are challenges, there are challenges there.

Jason Andriesse: [17:45] But the research we’ve done of all the things a financial planner should be good at to gain the trust and consideration and intention to take [inaudible 00:17:59] of consumers, of all the things they can be good at, the one driver that overwhelms everything else is the ability to articulate value. The ability to express to a client the benefits of doing business at the price for that particular client. There’s lots of research around that says “Yes, financial advice has lots of wellbeing benefits, it helps people feel more organized, gives them confidence and peace of mind”, but there’s way more than that. And CoreData’s done a lot of research on this, a lot of it’s public, around the demonstrable, measurable, real, tangible benefits of advice.

Jason Andriesse: [18:42] The real financial benefits of advice, where we have shown that an active relationship means that clients make better financial decisions today, and that has a positive impact on their wealth. Not just in terms of how much they retire with, and how much they have at the end, very few people want to give a bequest, only about 7% of society is worrying about that. People are able to spend more, they’re able to do more, they’re able to achieve more of their goals when they are in an advice relationship. You really take that goal perspective, that brings it to life. Where you can articulate, tick a client’s confidences, but articulate the value you have provided to other clients, that really brings it to life on the value of advice. It might be kids being able to go to private school, it may be sponsoring grandchildren at university, it might be more trips to Disneyland with the grandkids. Whatever it might be, if you can articulate to clients the value that you add in terms of what they’re able to achieve, that gets you where you want to be.

Fraser Jack: [20:00] Yeah, this is the good news story, isn’t it? It’s about saying that “People like you get benefit out of the advice that we provide”. Where can advisors and licensees get a bit more info on this? Obviously we’re not covering off too much here, but if they wanted to continue that conversation and look for it, what are some of the reports or information that’s out there in the public, or even yourselves that can help with that?

Jason Andriesse: [20:26] So, a lot of the work we have done is for particular clients. A lot of advice businesses and licensees have just commissioned CoreData to do work to help them articulate advice. So that’s their data, I can’t share that, but there are some businesses that have gone public with it, because they’ve wanted to communicate with consumers. So the AFA last year, 2018, published a report on the value of financial advice, people can Google that and they’ll find it. And some super has published similar things over the last couple of years.

Fraser Jack: [21:05] So what we’ll do is we’ll hunt up those links and whack them onto the show notes as well, to try and put them out there because I think that’s an interesting read, it’s an interesting place for advisors to start when they’re looking to articulate the value that they can bring. Not necessarily them just personally, but as an industry.

Fraser Jack: [21:25] So, there’s been a lot of this research and I’ve seen plenty of it around, as you mentioned before, trust and relationships and what clients want, and efficiencies. What’s the other stuff you’re working on?

Jason Andriesse: [21:39] So, we do a lot of research on the economics of advice, the real underlying needs of consumers and what they want to achieve. We work with a lot of super funds, and advisors should be aware of that. We work with a lot of super funds to help them better understand what their members are seeking and what decision support they require, and through that work we do a lot of predictive analytics, so super funds and the advice businesses within super funds are able to recognize through the data they have and the patterns of data and the behavior of the individual that they change, when they should be reaching out, with what message and what the offer should be.

Jason Andriesse: [22:31] I think it’s kind of not step one or two, but it’s an opportunity for advisors as well, because they do have a lot of data. And as they get more organized, as they embrace technology, and actually very few advisors have embraced technology, and we’ve got research on that. But as they do, they’ve got an extraordinary wealth of data on their customers, and through some clever techniques and looking at how customers, clients cluster into like segments, they can have a think about what they should be doing in a smarter, more efficient way.

Fraser Jack: [23:15] Yep. Now, you mentioned the needs of consumers, have you done any research or got any information on what consumers are wanting when it comes to the advice? As in areas of advice?

Jason Andriesse: [23:28] Yeah, absolutely. It’s interesting. So, we can go a lot of different ways here. Something I’m particular passionate about is the wellbeing aspect. So, for the unadvised, they are far more likely to be suffering from financial stress, and financial stress is kind of the main stress. It’s even more of a stress for individuals and families than health, and the negative impact on families is extraordinary, the negative impact on communities is extraordinary. But if you reach out to someone who feels financially stressed and try to engage them on their retirement planning, you’re not going to get anywhere. What they want is help in the day-to-day, they want to be relieved from the stress today to give them headspace to engage for the long term.

Jason Andriesse: [24:23] So, if I was a financial planner looking to engage an unadvised consumer, I’d be starting off by talking about what impacts them right now, and that is their utilities bill, the private school bill that’s due this week, the mortgage that’s due. Help them with the short-term, help them with their budget, help them with their cashflow, help them feel more organized. Help them feel successful, help them target their non-deductibles. If they’re feeling overwhelmed by credit cards, help them with a strategy of paying those off, feeling successful. And you will create trust, but more important than any of that, you’ll create headspace for them. It’s kind of a ladder, and as you create the headspace for them, you’re able to get to what you really want to talk about which is engaging people in the long term, and their long term financial services. Usually people have real difficulty in picturing themselves in the future, right? You need to reach out to them about their current concerns. Their current concerns are always immediate to them.

Fraser Jack: [25:40] Yeah, I subscribe to that too. I love the idea of helping them. And again, the saying that they come to you for help, not necessarily for advice, and to be able to help remove that fear and stress and anxiety, it opens them up to it and empowers them to have conversations with you around strategic planning that then they understand and can take ownership in or co-create with you, rather than you as the advisor handing down a set of recommendations that might just stress them even more.

Jason Andriesse: [26:14] Yeah, absolutely. As you say, the co-creation process is so important, something that I’ve been involved with since the 90s, right? When I was a financial planner we had a very clever for the time Excel spreadsheet that was around affordability and trade-off, and it’s all very unsophisticated when you look back at it, but man, it really sparked some good discussions with clients even then. You help them understand that they can’t achieve everything, yet it helps them prioritize what they can and can’t achieve, it helps them buy into the process, their understanding improves. That’s the whole point of financial advice, right? To help them understand what they’re going to be executing, so they can stick with it and be successful, and that co-creation process helps with all of that.

Fraser Jack: [27:08] Now, have you done any research around, I obviously love the goals-based advice conversation, and I’m very passionate about the idea of making sure everything fits back to a client’s goals and dreams and aspirations and hopes and again, this comes back down to what we just talked about before, we’re going to help them with the day-to-day, the now, the short-term before you help them with the long-term. Have you got some research around goals-based advice?

Jason Andriesse: [27:34] Yeah, we have, and we’ve got some really fresh stuff actually that we did with Fidelity, and it’s a report that’s just gone public in February 2019. It was called the Financial Power of Women, it looked at the issues with getting women engaged with their financial decisions, and getting them invested. There’s a lot there.

Jason Andriesse: [28:01] But one of them is that women are motivated by different things. Men are often intrigued and fascinated by investing just in itself as a game in itself, a means to an end in itself. A way of keeping score, a way of feeling successful, and a way of bragging to other people. But women are not like that, right? So women are far more interested in being goals-based, they’re far more interested in investing and getting organized financially in order to achieve the things that are important to them. And what we’ve seen is the things that are important to women are generally family, community things. It means that the conversation that the financial industry and financial planners have generally had around investments and returns, I had a conversation with my wife this morning, it’s very male-focused, right?

Jason Andriesse: [29:01] We need to change the way we interact with particularly unadvised people. If we want to be finding new clients, we all do, we should be engaging them as a different conversation, and goals-based is a great way to engage with the unadvised person. For two reasons. First of all, helping them feel more organized in ways that are immediately tangible for them, and also for embracing the way in which women think.

Fraser Jack: [29:34] I find that really fascinating. I’m actually going to reach out to Fidelity and see if I can have a conversation with them about that, maybe even bring it to another podcast episode, because I think that’s obviously a fairly large piece of work that we can do a lot deeper on if we had more time. So I might try and organize another session with them on that, and see if we can hear that part of the conversation.

Fraser Jack: [29:55] Now, I just thought I’d touch with you. We’ve had some chats before about the industry as a whole, and obviously with a lot of the stuff we’ve gone through so far. But you mentioned the idea that this is quite a seismic event that’s going on at the moment when it comes to all of the different moving pieces, and what’s happening with licensing, and what’s happening with the Royal Commission and what’s happening with education standards. And you’ve got a lot of research around how this is quite a pivotal moment for the industry.

Jason Andriesse: [30:25] Yeah, we’ve done a lot of research on this. The last 18 months we’ve done a lot of research on it. So, as you said Fraser, there’s so much changing in financial advice. And we thought that this was a dynamic industry before, but it really is this convergence of issues that we’ve never seen before, and it’s time now, and it’s overdue now, for financial planners to recognize that the way they used to work isn’t going to get them there. And they have a choice, right? Not everyone has to do it. The ability to change is not equal, and there will be people who say “This isn’t for me, I want to be doing something else.”

Jason Andriesse: [31:17] We’ve already seen some of that, we did see before the [inaudible 00:31:22] requirements to get onto the ASIC Register of Advisors, we did see that there were people, they’ve lost advisors. It’s boosted, but we’ll see that come down again, and over the next few years we’ll see advisors leave the industry. Which is challenging, right, for the community that needs to be served. And there will be those advisors who say “I want to work differently with my clients and meet their expectations and meet the regulator’s expectations.” And we think that there’s about 40% of financial planners who do need to change, if they don’t change they will be extinct. And not all of those 40% will do that, but I’m hoping that a large portion of them do and we’re really interested in working with them to transform and serve their clients differently.

Fraser Jack: [32:27] Yeah. You mentioned the word “extinct” there, it did pop out. Is this a standard evolutionary process?

Jason Andriesse: [32:41] Awesome question. So, I’ve talked a lot about this, and I’ll just quickly indulge it for 30 seconds. So, 56 million years ago, a large piece of rock came from outer space and hit the Earth in modern-day Mexico, a place called Yucatán, and it changed the environment completely, and wiped out 75% of plant life and animal life, wiped out all of the land-based dinosaurs that were over 25 kilos. But it didn’t wipe everything out and there were beings that not only survived, but thrived in the new environment, and we’re facing a similar thing. Probably not a 75% wipeout, but a 40% wipeout, and I’m hoping that people can change.

Jason Andriesse: [33:32] But the nature of change is complex, and even in the natural world, there’s no evolution and that kind of has been a myth. In 1972, a paleontologist called Stephen Jay Gould wrote a paper that was very controversial but is now widely accepted on what was called “punctuated equilibrium”, and that point is that in the natural world, species stay the same until they’re acted upon by such force that requires them to undergo so much stress that they need to change, and then they’ll change and they’ll become a new form, a different form of themselves. So there’s nothing evolutionary about evolution, and it’s a myth, and financial advisors need to think like that. The issue with change is it’s not just about buying new technology, it’s actually about understanding what they do well and supplementing that with technology and process and behavior change. So, buying a sexy, shiny new tool is not going to get them there, in fact, it’s just going to create a distraction from serving the client.

Fraser Jack: [34:49] Yeah, now just on technology, have you got stats that show this, the number of advisors that can use technology and modeling and things with the client?

Jason Andriesse: [35:03] Yeah, so we have done that. So, Fraser, one of the ways that we get data is through mystery shopping, so often licensees engage us, we find real consumers to go through the advice process, but it’s different to a normal consumer because they then provide feedback on the experience to CoreData, and we look at the patterns of that. And what is extraordinary to me is that, and this was done last year, May 2018, even in May 2018, 75% of advisors don’t use technology in front of their clients. Only 25% of advisors use technology with their clients to help them make better decisions, understand the trade-off they need to make, understand the goals they can achieve, what they can’t achieve. So, that co-creation process isn’t really happening at the moment.

Fraser Jack: [36:06] And so, from the consumers that you had feedback with, is that something that they weren’t happy with? They want more technology in the process or are happy to have that what it is?

Jason Andriesse: [36:21] It’s what we in research call the “faster horses debate”. If you asked a consumer 100 years ago what they wanted from transport they would have said faster horses. What they actually wanted was different modes of transport that they hadn’t realized exists, and they didn’t exist. So they wanted cars, they want motorcycles, they want a plane and train. So, it’s about leading clients with the experience. What we have seen is that those financial planners who are able to integrate technology into the advice process and work with their clients do much better when it comes to consideration, understanding of their strategy, consumer understanding I mean, and their intention to execute. Much higher.

Jason Andriesse: [37:10] There are some financial planners who’ve obviously been required to use the technology, and they’re not embracing it. That’s a minority, but that actually detracts from the process. The message there is, where technology is used well in the advice process with the clients, co-created by, there are much better consumer outcomes in terms of understanding, discussions, and intention to execute.

Fraser Jack: [37:41] Yep. Yeah, I couldn’t agree more, absolutely. I’m certainly looking forward to the day when consumers are getting a much better experience.

Fraser Jack: [37:51] Now, I just thought I might touch on, I don’t know if you can talk to it or not, but there might be anything you can let us know about some of the stuff that’s coming in the future, or studies that are coming, from your point of view?

Jason Andriesse: [38:07] So there’s never been a better time to listen to your clients and seek to serve them in the way they want to be served. CoreData is in that space, we’re working with a lot of advisors and licensees and super funds on exactly that. I don’t want to give too much away, we’re going to concentrate more on making meanings of the economics of advice. What do these changes mean for the economics of an advice practice, the economics of the licensee? With BT leading the personal advice, they’ve just started a whole new conversation around “Can you actually make money out of advice?” You absolutely can make money out of advice, but you need to do it differently to the way you previously have.

Fraser Jack: [38:52] Yeah. I agree. Now, how do you see all this panning out over the next four or five, six, ten years, with advice and how it’s moving?

Jason Andriesse: [39:05] I’m optimistic. I think that the shifts that we’re already seeing are indicative of what’s happening. I think that more and more advisors will take control of their careers and choose to work with clients in the way that they want to in order to serve their clients better. We’re seeing people shift to self-licensing and working within non-institutional licensees in smaller practices. We’re seeing communities of advisors join together seeking to professionalize.

Jason Andriesse: [39:41] So, I’m optimistic. We are going to get through FASEA, we are going to see a generational change of advice, we are going to see a group of advisors that CoreData probably ungenerously calls “cruisers”, but that’s what they are. The economics of their business are reliant on past activities, that’s going to end. Financial advisors will have active relationships with their clients, they will add value through that active relationship, and that active relationship is not going to be unsophisticated as an annual face-to-face review. We’re smarter than that, right? It’s going to be much different. There are challenges there with the regulator who’s caught in the 1980s, but we need to get there, and we’ll do it through leadership.

Fraser Jack: [40:39] Yeah, brilliant, thank you. I’ll finish on that last four questions that we ask everybody, but if you’re giving tips to a consumer, a friend of yours maybe at a barbecue, and they’re thinking about getting financial advice, what are the things that you’re saying to them for them to look out for, and the tips that you want to give them prior to giving advice?

Jason Andriesse: [40:58] There are three major barriers that I’d be seeking to just overcome, and one is don’t believe all the bad press, don’t believe all the news stories, there are some extraordinary financial advisors out there and they are in the majority, and they genuinely seek to turn up every day at work to help consumers like them make better financial decisions and see a transformative impact on their life and what they’re able to do with their family. So, the first thing is there are good advisors out there.

Jason Andriesse: [41:34] Second is, it’s a myth that you need a lot of money to get advice. Advice can help you from wherever you are today. And I’d also want to express to them the value of advice, the benefits of advice in terms of the peace of mind, but not just that. The absolutely demonstrable, measurable, real, tangible financial benefits of advice. And the ability to achieve more out of life, right?

Fraser Jack: [42:01] Yep, brilliant. Thank you. Now if you’re giving some tips to some younger advisors, whether they’re in their gap year, what do they call it now? Professional year. Or looking at coming into the industry. What sort of tips do you give to someone that’s thinking about getting into the industry as an advisor?

Jason Andriesse: [42:22] So, first of all, congratulations, what a great industry to be joining. Much smarter than other professionals, there are too many of them. There’s not enough financial advisors and you’re going to do really well. Your challenge will be having the ability to have the wise conversations that clients are looking for. That depends on your target market, but if you are seeking to engage with people with real life experience that goes beyond yours, then you’re going to have to listen, and listen out for different stories from the other advisors, more experienced advisors, around what really happens in life. You can’t wait 30 years to get 30 years experience, you’re going to have to fast-track that.

Jason Andriesse: [43:11] So, I would say my piece of advice is find a mentor. Someone you can trust. Someone you can have a coffee with once a month and talk about the real world, real life issues, because the maths is the easy stuff.

Fraser Jack: [43:26] Yeah, that’s really well said, I love the way you said “Ability to have wise conversations”. I think you’ve hit the nail on the head there.

Fraser Jack: [43:36] And what about advisors who might be in the 40% that are in the way of the Yucatán event happening to them, the 40%, they have to change. What advice do you give to people who have to change?

Jason Andriesse: [43:54] Yeah, so 40% of people are in the boat of they will become extinct, unless they change. So maybe becoming extinct is okay for them, but they should get real. There is no status quo anymore, there is no failure to make a decision. Do they want to embrace a new way of working with their clients, a new way to manage their practice? And if they do, then they need to get serious around that, and they should start with listening to their clients and what the community wants, there’s plenty of data there, and seek to meet them where they’re at.

Fraser Jack: [44:39] So, is the big part of that actually making the decision?

Jason Andriesse: [44:44] Yeah, it is. There is no option to not make a decision, they actually need to make a decision. We used to get by not having to confront this, right, but that is not going to happen now. They need to make a decision for their own benefit, because if the decision is to leave the industry then there are things they can do today to make the most of their situation and their clients’ situation.

Fraser Jack: [45:09] Yeah, good call. And the last question is a bit of self-reflection, if you could go back in time to any particular part and maybe go back and give yourself some advice or tips back in time, what would you go back and say to yourself?

Jason Andriesse: [45:27] I would say to myself to be patient, to be frank with you. Building a practice takes time. I was in the extraordinary position of being a partner in a practice when I was only about 22 years old, and I was too impatient to stick at it. So, if I could turn back time I’d be more patient. I’ve had a very interesting and successful career, and diverse career, and don’t regret it, but my advice to my younger self would be to be patient. It takes time to build active relationships with clients, and build a practice.

Fraser Jack: [46:07] Yeah, good advice, great tips. Thank you so much for coming on the show today Jason, I really appreciate your time, I loved the stats. I love getting into the nitty gritty of how consumers are behaving and thinking prior to becoming clients, thank you for bringing that to the show today.

Jason Andriesse: [46:26] It’s been a real pleasure, Fraser, so thanks for having me on.

Fraser Jack: [46:30[ All right, thanks mate.

Fraser Jack: [46:33] If you haven’t already, I’d love you to subscribe to the podcast on your podcast platform of choice, and to continue the conversation head over to our social media channels. We’ll catch you next time.


Disclaimer: This document is a transcription obtained through a third party. There is no claim to accuracy on the content provided in this document, and divergence from the audio file are to be expected. As a transcription, this is not a legal document in itself, and should not be considered binding to advice intelligence, but merely a convenience for reference.