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Podcast Transcript

Episode 51, Season 1

How to build a blue ocean financial advice business, with Vince Scully


Vince Scully: 00:00:00 On the first point is to find an advisor that deals with people that look like you. That’s so important. Because most advisors have a niche that they’re particularly good at, whether that’s retirement planning, whether it’s Centrelink, whether it’s insurance, whatever it is. So you need to find someone who looks like you and shares values, shares your values. Because if you don’t get those two right, it’s not going to be a long relationship.

Fraser Jack: 00:00:26 Hello and welcome to the Goals Based Advice Podcast, where I have conversations with pioneers of the new world of financial advice. I’m your host, Fraser Jack, and I want to thank you so much for tuning in today.

Fraser Jack: 00:00:38 In this episode, I chat with Vince Scully, who runs a very different financial advice business. They’re called LifeSherpa, and they’re based in Sydney servicing clients nationally. Now it’s a membership community with online courses and a focus on helping many consumers that it finds on Facebook. So it’s a one-to-many and none-to-many model. Even if you run the most traditional style of advice business, it’s really interesting to step outside the box and see how an advice business could exist looking after the consumers who may be outside a typical financial planning market.

Fraser Jack: 00:01:16 If you’re enjoying this podcast, please help me spread the word and share it with your friends and colleagues, and leave me a review on iTunes. And I’d also like to thank our supporting partner, Advice Intelligence, for powering this podcast.

Fraser Jack: 00:01:29 Let’s jump straight into my chat with Vince. Welcome to the show, Vince.

Vince Scully: 00:01:35 Good day, Fraser. Good to be [inaudible 00:01:36].

Fraser Jack: 00:01:37 How are you?

Vince Scully: 00:01:37 I am great this fine, gray morning in Sydney.

Fraser Jack: 00:01:41 Yeah, it’s a great morning where I am too, at the moment. So it must be this time of the year. Do you want to quickly give yourself a introduction, let us know what you’re doing at the moment?

Vince Scully: 00:01:50 Sure. I’ve been around financial services and finance in general for well, probably more years than I care to remember, but 35, I think, at the last count. And over that time, there’s been huge changes in the economic environment, the regulatory environment, what consumers are looking for, and what advisors are delivering.

Vince Scully: 00:02:09 If I look back, you might say that financial advice 101 was insurance sales dressed up as financial advice. Financial advice 2.0 was product sales dressed up as strategy. And financial advice 3.0, where we are now, is really about tying in goals to strategy and so that product then becomes secondary. And that’s a lot of change in 35 years. Not only have we moved from placing trades on telex... you do know what a telex is, don’t you? And to online device.

Vince Scully: 00:02:41 So big changes and that’s encompassed... I had corporate career for the best part of 15 years. I set up my own funds management and advice business in the early 2000s, when the previous round of changes happened, when FSRA came in and authorized reps were invented and AFSLs came about. That was a fairly high-end financial advice business, so my typical client had a million dollars and was 65. And we ran MDAs before they were trendy. So we actually had a MDA license in 2003. Most people went, “What’s a MDA?” But that was all individual stocks. We did one-stop shop for self-managed super funds. So that included strategy, portfolio management, accounting, audit, tax returns, the full one-stop, self-managed super fund service.

Fraser Jack: 00:03:29 It sounds like you’ve done a fair few different things within the industry over the years.

Vince Scully: 00:03:35 That’s right. I guess I’ve been at the forefront of that change for a long time and being first is not always a good thing in this industry, let me tell you that. We were the first lenders to self-managed super funds in 2007, and that was a very interesting time explaining to people that... which was then mostly small business people wanting to buy their own business premises. It was a strategy that worked really well. And then of course, the government legalized it, and it’s been overtaken by a lot of residential property spruikers, who may very well kill the golden goose. And it may not last very much longer.

Fraser Jack: 00:04:09 Yeah, exactly right. So you’re running a very different style of business now.

Vince Scully: 00:04:14 Absolutely, yep.

Fraser Jack: 00:04:15 You’ve obviously come through a process of a lot of change and seen a lot of change and had to change your business models. What made you decide to change to this model?

Vince Scully: 00:04:26 Well, it was really about a... it was a bit of a aha moment really in the post, the wash-up of the GFC, I’d sold my advice business to Mark Bouris in December 2007, which was probably one of the best-timed dealed I’ve ever done.

Fraser Jack: 00:04:44 Yeah, brilliant timing.

Vince Scully: 00:04:45 And then, September 2008, Lehman Brothers fell over and we had to close down our lending business. So I was tidying up, so I ended up selling the loan book and I had a lot of time in my what was intended therefore to be my second retirement... so how old was I in 2008? I would have been mid-40s. Yeah, mid-40s.

Vince Scully: 00:05:10 I thought, “Well, maybe I just need to take some time out.” But in the course of that, I sat back and thought, you do these things when you’ve got lots of time to think. But you know, this financial planning stuff isn’t black magic. It’s not rocket science. It is actually a process, that this is possibly the way that we could deliver it to those who don’t have a million dollars and aren’t 65. The technology really wasn’t there then. And I hadn’t worked out how I could turn that thought into something that could deliver it profitably.

Vince Scully: 00:05:43 But roll forward to the mid-teens, so 2014, 2015, the technology had moved on. Internet was getting cheaper, you could buy hosting at AWS, you could build websites much more cheaply. That led me to revisit it and came up with the business model that would make that work.

Vince Scully: 00:06:05 The way I sort of looked at it at the time, I go, “There’s 8.6 million households in Australia. Depending on who you listen to, somewhere between 10 and 20 percent of them take financial advice.” Which sounds like that’s a huge opportunity. But when you look at those people who do take advice and break down the wealth distribution in the population, there are only about 20% of households have more than $100,000 of investible assets. So as an industry, if you’re selling stuff that you’re charging as an asset under management fee, that’s about the size of the market.

Fraser Jack: 00:06:38 So it’s a surprise-

Vince Scully: 00:06:39 And then maybe you add in a bit of super assets and the pool gets a bit bigger. But when you break that down, you’ve got 1.6 million self-funded retiree households, and just over a million mass affluent or high-net-worth households, which amounts to... I don’t know, if you do the maths, that’s sort of 2.5 million households. And there’s 19,000 financial planners. So that’s a hundred or so each, which is a great business.

Vince Scully: 00:07:01 So if you’re a sole practitioner and you had 100 clients with $100,000 or more under management, that’s a pretty good business. And lots of people make pretty good businesses in that.

Vince Scully: 00:07:09 But what about the other 80% of the population, who can’t buy what the industry’s selling, because they don’t have assets under management? What about them? So if you take out the two million or so who earn a substantial part of their living on government benefits, that leaves you with about four million households, who are largely being ignored.

Fraser Jack: 00:07:29 Yeah, this is a really interesting business model, isn’t it? Because as you said, it’s sort of been the luxury market end of those people that are available to get advice. The whole financial advice industry is around serving that luxury end.

Vince Scully: 00:07:44 It is. That’s a very good point, because when I first started floating this idea, everyone jumped from there to going, “Oh, you want to do robo advice.” But robo advice still largely means either asset allocation or portfolio management or both. Which is still serving the same group of people, because you actually need assets under management for that. So you can only buy so-called robo advice if you’ve got money to invest. So you haven’t actually broadened the appeal all that much. You’ve certainly taken a lot of costs out of delivering what we’ve traditionally delivered, but you haven’t expanded the market.

Vince Scully: 00:08:18 So going back to this four million households, if you say, “Well, let’s just take those that are under 45.” We get down to 2.5 million households. This is a group of people who are going through the big life events that create demand for advice and financial product. And yet, they’re being ignored.

Vince Scully: 00:08:39 So what are they doing? They’re coupling, they’re nesting, so they’re buying houses. And they’re having kids. Which take those three together, they’re the biggest times when you’ve got your... the time when you’ve got your biggest debt and probably your biggest demand for life insurance or protection.

Fraser Jack: 00:08:56 All these major life events are all excellent triggers.

Vince Scully: 00:09:00 Exactly. And they’re the times that people get engaged. So what do we have to do to deliver a service cost-effectively to this group of people? This is where it starts to get interesting.

Vince Scully: 00:09:12 A lot of people have spent a lot of time automating the service delivery bit, so automating producing statements of advice, automating... you know you got APIs into insurance quoting software? There’s a lot of tech helping advisors automate or systemize the delivery of that service. But that sort of fundamentally misses the economics of the business. The economics of this business are driven by the cost of acquiring a customer. And this is the thing where most fintechs struggle. That getting someone to actually engage is a very costly exercise.

Vince Scully: 00:09:51 In a traditional advice business, it’s largely hidden, because we forget about all the time that we spend converting a referral. When I did the maths in my old business, and I reckon that to take on a new customer, cost me $20,000. And I didn’t do any advertising. That was purely converting two out of three referrals.

Vince Scully: 00:10:13 So by the time you did... you had a couple of meetings, you did a statement of advice. You actually demonstrated what you could do for this person. I converted two out of three. So it cost me $20,000 to bring on a customer. Which was fine, because that was less than a year’s revenue. So that was a business that you would do all day long. And it was hidden because that was largely labor, that was a fixed cost. So you just knew that you spent two or three days a week prospecting, and the rest of the time actually delivering advice. And that’s typical for most practices.

Vince Scully: 00:10:49 So the cost of acquisition gets lost in a traditional advice business. But now, put that online and you’ve now got to do it... you’re actually paying Facebook or you’re paying Google or you’re paying affiliates or whatever, there’s a very visible cost of acquiring a customer. And we know that acquiring a home loan customer, someone who wants a home loan today, or somebody who wants a life insurance policy today, are two of the most expensive Google AdWords you can buy.

Vince Scully: 00:11:15 So if you’re going to rely on trying to find someone who wants a transaction today, the economics of that are going to be really difficult to make work.

Fraser Jack: 00:11:25 Just before we go too much further, I just wanted to make sure we cover off on your business model. Because we haven’t really spoken about that as such. Unless we’ve just covered over it.

Vince Scully: 00:11:36 Yeah, it’ll sort of flow out of the story of how we got there, but the LifeSherpa model is a membership-based community where we look to engage with younger people who don’t have money to invest, but they have a need to solve a money problem. That’s not going to be reflected necessarily in looking to buy a home loan today or a life insurance policy today.

Vince Scully: 00:12:03 Our typical member is a 28-year-old woman in a professional or creative job who wakes up on her 29th birthday and thinks, “You know, I’ve got a good job. I make a good living. How come I’ve got nothing to show for it? And why can’t I afford a house?” The approach of 30 or getting engaged are things that trigger those sort of thoughts. Now, she’s not Googling, “Why can’t I buy a house?” So she’s very difficult to identify in the traditional way, so we need to deliver engaging content that helps answer some of those questions for her, and take her through a journey which could involve paying off debts. It could involve putting a budget together. It could involve ongoing budget coaching. It could involve first home buyer, becoming a first home buyer. It’s almost certainly going to involve sorting her super out, sorting her insurance out and getting her on that journey. And that’s a long journey.

Fraser Jack: 00:13:00 Yeah, certainly is and I think about this as the big chunk of the affluent market there that is not being served it currently. Because obviously we know the cost to serve is way too high. You’re taking on a role of helping these everyday Australians try and just get ahead a little bit and do these other things and creating a business where you really need to be providing something that’s scaled for these people.

Vince Scully: 00:13:29 That’s right. This is clearly a scale business and by delivering engagement early on in that journey, we can start at a very low cost point.

Vince Scully: 00:13:41 So the entry point could be a $15 a month subscription, which gets you access to a whole bunch of online tools, which allow you to work out where you are and gives you tips and exercises to improve that score, and gets you access to an advisor to ask questions. Or the more common start is what we call our Budget Bliss program, which is we’ve got an online course, which is delivered by video with exercises and a Facebook group and that starts at $299. You can couple that, which most people do, with a ongoing membership where we have some software that collects all your banking transactions and drops them into a Google sheet and we provide group coaching through a Facebook group. And that’s a $60 a month. So most people will buy that together with the course for $699.

Fraser Jack: 00:14:32 So that’s a coaching, spending coaching platform?

Vince Scully: 00:14:36 Yep. That’s right [crosstalk 00:14:39].

Fraser Jack: 00:14:39 Are you saying that’s a six month? Or?

Vince Scully: 00:14:40 No, well, the course is to begin, so you could buy the course on its own for $299 and do it yourself. Or you can join the ongoing coaching program, which is the $60 a month subscription. But you could bundle those together for your first year for $699.

Fraser Jack: 00:14:54 Yeah. It’s-

Vince Scully: 00:14:55 And that’s typically where people will start because that’s particularly good value. So for $699, you would expect to start seeing results within about 12 weeks. So if you follow the modules in the course and do the exercises, you will start seeing results after about 12 weeks. Doesn’t mean you’re going to be able to buy a home after 12 weeks. But it means that you will be on the way on your journey.

Fraser Jack: 00:15:17 Yep. So this is behavioral coaching. It’s helping them understand what their current situation is, what their habits are, how they’re spending and really giving them the tools to take control of their own [crosstalk 00:15:31].

Vince Scully: 00:15:30 Absolutely. That word control’s particularly important in our world and we know that the biggest single cause of stress in young people is money, and stress largely comes from lack of control. So if you can empower people with the tools to get control in their lives, that stress will disappear.

Vince Scully: 00:15:51 So in many ways, this is a stress relief exercise. It’s far cheaper than a personal trainer.

Fraser Jack: 00:15:57 Yeah. It’s really... I completely believe for those people, it’s the very first step that they need to get right, get that sorted.

Vince Scully: 00:16:06 And obviously as we’re going through that exercise, when you look at a budget, the big four are usually where you live, what you drive, what you owe, and insurance. So if you get those big four right, you free up cash to do things that actually matter in life. But you get those four right, you don’t have to worry about what you’re spending on a coffee. Whereas most people start at the other end and go, “What’s the first recommendation most people give?” Well, you’ve got to stop smashing avocado and drink coffee. Which of course is just completely the wrong way round.

Vince Scully: 00:16:39 So as I said, so going through that budgeting stage, you will pick up all of those things. So you can then deal with the insurance and the super through that exercise. So you then deliver effectively holistic advice, but piece by piece within an overall framework.

Fraser Jack: 00:16:56 Yep. Now you’ve mentioned a couple of times, membership or members and also you’ve spoken about community. Of course, having a Facebook group there. So people join, will do the course and then join the Facebook group?

Vince Scully: 00:17:09 Yep.

Fraser Jack: 00:17:10 And then be able to have conversation in an open forum about it?

Vince Scully: 00:17:12 That’s right. The sharing that journey is an important element of that. But they obviously choose how much they want to share in those groups. So in many cases, they will send in their questions in advance, and we’ll anonymize them and talk about them. So it’s important to have real stories from people who look like you as you go on your journey, but you don’t have to share what you don’t want to share.

Vince Scully: 00:17:37 But that shared journey. I’m sure you’ll be familiar with... there’s a whole network of Facebook groups of people who use Afterpay, the We Love Afterpay, there’s 150,000 people in the We Love Afterpay Facebook group, which has got nothing to do with Afterpay. There are hundreds of thousands of members of various Barefoot Investor forums on the internet, on Facebook. And it’s because there’s this human need to share. That most people, when they start on this journey, think, “Well, if I’m making good money and I’ve got nothing to show for it, and I can’t afford a house, I must be doing something wrong.” Whereas actually, most people are in the same boat. By taking the journey together, you get a much better outcome.

Vince Scully: 00:18:20 It’s like why Weight Watchers was so successful in the pre-internet days. Because women turned up for their weekly weigh-in, generally was women. I’m not being discriminatory, but Weight Watchers was fundamentally by women, for women. They’ve moved into the male market now. But that was that shared journey and the weekly accountability of going, “Well, did I do what I said I’d do this week?” And that’s so important.

Fraser Jack: 00:18:45 Yeah, there’s certainly... and that’s what community’s about, isn’t it? It’s about everybody being part and being supportive and encouraging. When people become vulnerable, other people stand up and say, “No, it’s okay, you’re not alone.”

Vince Scully: 00:19:00 Yeah. I mean, there is a fair bit of moderation to do. You do have to be right on top of people who will post stuff that’s inappropriate or judgmental or based on incomplete information. So there’s a fair bit of work in moderating those forums. You can’t let them run wild. You want them to be as organic as possible. But you do have to be protective of your members.

Fraser Jack: 00:19:28 So do you have a person in your... obviously that just moderates that? Or is it-

Vince Scully: 00:19:34 We do have someone who does it. It’s not a full-time job, but the whole management of the social side of things is becoming a very significant part of our workload.

Fraser Jack: 00:19:46 So anybody thinking about having or starting an online community like a Facebook group needs to understand that there’s still a fair bit of work involved.

Vince Scully: 00:19:56 That’s right. It’s not a free ride and you do need to be conscious of what’s getting posted. You need to make sure the right people join. Now in our case, you have to be a member before you can come into the Facebook group anyway. So ours is probably a little tighter than some other groups. And you’ve got to make sure that the conversation is kicked along, without dominating. You have to learn the discipline of not jumping in too early, so letting the community answer the questions themselves before you jump in.

Fraser Jack: 00:20:33 Did you find that most of your posts then would be around again asking questions about... instead of answering with an answer, answering them with another question?

Vince Scully: 00:20:42 Yeah, sure. In most cases, the group will share enough of their personal experience, because obviously not everyone’s at the same stage in the journey. So this course is open all the time, so people are joining every week. So people will show pride in what they’ve achieved and be very keen to share that experience. So it’s a very organic thing. But yeah, it does need some kicking along occasionally.

Fraser Jack: 00:21:08 I love the idea of an online course. And I love the idea, because it can get people prepared to do things before maybe the advice that you might offer them, as say a advice that does more the traditional advice, but they can get people understanding their budget, their cashflow, saving every week or every month and therefore having a positive... having some money to invest, I guess, to start with.

Vince Scully: 00:21:38 Exactly.

Fraser Jack: 00:21:38 I just wanted to ask you about the course. How long did it take you to build it? Where did you get the information from? Once it was built, obviously, that’s the beauty of an online course, you build it once and then you continue to sell the same course over and over again.

Vince Scully: 00:21:54 That’s right. It’s a bit like writing a book, though. If you added up all the hours that you spend putting it together and said, “I want to get a dollar per hour or X dollars per hour.” It’ll take a long time to do that.

Vince Scully: 00:22:08 This content comes from... I guess it’s probably been 10 or more years in gestation. I first sat down to write this stuff down in, when I was doing very little in 2008. That became a lot of the content on the website, which then also became my book, The Latte Fallacy, and has now then morphed into the courses.

Vince Scully: 00:22:28 But the way you script a course, even if it’s the same content, is quite distinctly different to how you write it in a book. So people absorb content differently. I know this doesn’t quite answer your question, but I’d never added up the number of hours that was spent on this content. Because it was spent in so many different ways. The way the material’s presented in the course is quite distinctly different to the way it’s presented in the book. But you will get more or less the same content by reading the book.

Fraser Jack: 00:22:59 Great, okay. So-

Vince Scully: 00:23:00 So the whole thing is consistent. The articles on the website, the book, our teaching methodology, our course, it’s all built around this concept of living the life you want with the money you have.

Fraser Jack: 00:23:13 With the course, is it you looking at the video? Is it you screen sharing? Or?

Vince Scully: 00:23:19 No, most of it is head-to-camera with B-roll. So it’s got reasonably high production values in that sense. So there was a fair bit of... we put a lot of time and effort into filming it. The only screen shares are where we’re trying to show you how to do something specific on one of the tools.

Vince Scully: 00:23:39 So for example, we use a Google sheet. And to use a Google sheet, you need a Google account. Some people don’t have Google accounts. So we’ve got a little video that says, “Here’s how you set up a Google account.” That’s screen shared. But the Introduction to Budgeting video is head-to-camera with background, backing, images and footage.

Fraser Jack: 00:23:58 Yeah. As you said, it takes a while to get through the course. Does that mean you release a video each week or something? Or is it a-

Vince Scully: 00:24:05 We don’t. The goal is to do it over 12 weeks but obviously you can do it as to your own time. The 12 weeks sort of fits with putting the exercises... doing the exercises as well. So there’s 23 videos, I think, in the budget course, which is probably two or three hours of video and then there’s a bunch of downloads and exercises.

Vince Scully: 00:24:29 So if you start off and watch the introduction and then do some of those exercises, then you might watch Module Two, and then you start tracking your expenses for 30 days. So by the time you fit those exercises in and line them up, 12 weeks is a good time. But there’s no magic about it being 12 weeks.

Fraser Jack: 00:24:52 Yeah. I like the idea of doing it like you said. Giving it a 12-week timeframe like that, because habits don’t just change overnight. They need to be changed over time and you have to have it part of your thought patterns every day when you’re getting up.

Vince Scully: 00:25:06 That’s right. And so much of this stuff is about mindfulness. It’s about realizing what am I actually spending on and how does it make me feel when I spend it? Who am I with when I spend it? What mood am I in when I spend it? Because a lot of what we do with money is emotional. This is not a mathematical exercise.

Vince Scully: 00:25:29 And it’s the same reason why giving up your morning coffee’s not going to solve your budgeting. Because you’ll just replace it with something else. And you’ll feel miserable. It’s the same reason why driving Uber on a Friday night’s not going to solve your budget problem. Because you can’t out earn bad spending. So you need to understand why you do what you do and what you actually do.

Fraser Jack: 00:25:50 Yep.

Vince Scully: 00:25:51 Because in most cases, energy flows to where the passion goes. So if something’s important to you, you will spend time on it and focus on it and energy on it.

Fraser Jack: 00:26:00 That’s a really good saying. Is that yours?

Vince Scully: 00:26:02 No, I think it might be Anthony Robbins. I can’t directly attribute it, but it is. So if you actually look at someone’s spending, and get them to track how they feel about it when they’re spending it, it’s very easy to identify the spending that’s adding value to their lives. The spending that makes them feel like they’re getting something from their money.

Fraser Jack: 00:26:21 Yeah. Yeah, good.

Vince Scully: 00:26:24 So you can tell when someone walks in or comes into the community, the words they use to describe how they feel about their money will tell you a lot. So if someone says, “I just don’t feel like I’m getting ahead.” That’s largely because they’re not spending enough money towards achieving their goals, which usually comes from spending too much on the chore stuff that adds no... that’s necessary but doesn’t add any value. And if they feel like there’s... don’t have enough money to do what they want to do, probably because they’re not spending enough money on living.

Fraser Jack: 00:26:55 Yeah, it’s really interesting-

Vince Scully: 00:26:56 So those words tell you so much. So listening is possibly one of the most important skills that any advisor can develop. I mean, really listening, not trying to say, “Well, what am I going to say next?” But actually listening to what, not only what they’re saying, but the words they’re using to say it. That just tells you so much.

Fraser Jack: 00:27:16 That’s the benefit of having them contribute to Facebook group.

Vince Scully: 00:27:19 Yep. So those expressions of feelings is the key to understanding the problem you’re trying to solve. And that’s why, to a large extent, that you can’t remove the human from this exercise. There are no end of apps that will track your spending. I’ve lost count of... I used to trial them all, but I’ve just lost count of them. There seems to be a new one every other week. And with open banking, it’s only going to get easier.

Vince Scully: 00:27:48 But it doesn’t actually force you to put your mind to, “How did I feel about this particular piece of spending?” So if I’ve got... you’ve got a charge at a boutique, all these apps will quite happily categorize that as retail or clothing or whatever. But if you don’t understand that you are actually with this friend, who always makes you able to spend and you end up buying stuff that you didn’t really like. If you don’t understand that, you’re not going to win this game.

Vince Scully: 00:28:16 So that’s probably why the research is now showing that people who use budget tracking apps are more likely to overdraw their bank account than others. It’s difficult to work out which comes first. But I think the real reason why that is the case is that you have this false sense of feeling like you’re tracking your spending. So if you ask someone who uses one of these apps, they’ll go, “Oh yeah. Of course I track my spending.” But if you don’t actually sit down in the evening and go, “What did I spend today? How did it make me feel?”

Vince Scully: 00:28:49 So we encourage people to actually do the first 30 days using pen and paper. Or if you have to use an app, use a note taking app. But don’t use a spreadsheet, don’t use an app. Just write down what time it was, how I paid for it, what I bought, how I was feeling at the time, who I was with. And how I felt afterwards. And that just focuses the mind on what you’re getting out of it.

Vince Scully: 00:29:13 Because it’s not a rationing problem. It’s an optimization problem. It’s how can I get the most out of what I’ve got? And that’s true, whether it’s energy, time, focus or money.

Fraser Jack: 00:29:23 There’s a huge mindfulness piece, isn’t there?

Vince Scully: 00:29:24 Yeah. Mindfulness, sounds a bit woo-woo when you first say it. And maybe we could have a better word. But it’s just that context of knowing that I’m spending this, that I’m buying my coffee because I want to sit with the paper first thing in the morning. Or I’m buying my coffee because I want to share it with the group from work. Not that I’m buying this because I’m bored. That once you understand the drivers of what you’re doing, then you can do much more about it.

Vince Scully: 00:30:00 And it won’t feel like it’s deprivation. Because that’s what most people think about. When they think about budgeting, they think it’s like dieting. What am I going to cut out? What should I spend? When the question you have to ask yourself is, “How can I spend what I’ve got to add the greatest amount of value to my life?” And most of that is psychological and emotional.

Vince Scully: 00:30:22 This is not an analytical, quantitative problem. And that’s why you can’t produce a digital solution to this. You can’t solve an analog problem with a digital solution. We as advisors, we’re trying to solve an analog problem. And what we’ve got to do is use the technology to maximize the value we as individuals can add to our clients, customers, members, whatever.

Fraser Jack: 00:30:48 Yeah. So you’ve solved it with the course and the group, but also they can ring and speak to-

Vince Scully: 00:30:55 Yeah. So the tools on the website, we have two key tools that you get with your membership.

Vince Scully: 00:31:02 The first one of those is a Money Personality Test, which is a clinically proven to identify... there’s 13 key attributes of how you deal with money. So things like involvement. Now every advisor you talk to has those stories about the engineer or the teacher client who wants to second guess everything you’re doing. They need a lot of detail and they’re very reluctant to delegate. Now, they will generally score with a very high involvement score. So that’s one of the 13 attributes. There’s also altruism, trust, confidence, anxiety. So this tool measures those 13 attributes and puts you in one of nine personality types.

Vince Scully: 00:31:42 That personality type then drives our advice process. So if you score very highly on involvement, we will give you more detail in your advice. So if you’re a very high involvement score, we would give you our statement of advice or credit quote would... So Fraser, the answer is A for these reasons, but we also looked at B, C and D and eliminated them for these reasons. If you score very low on involvement, well, Fraser, look, the answer is A for these reasons. And this is why you’re better off doing it. Yeah, so simple-

Fraser Jack: 00:32:15 Yeah, it is, keeping them engaged.

Vince Scully: 00:32:18 Yeah. Because I’ve seen an awful lot of 100-page statements of advice that nobody reads, let alone understands. So if you get that right, you can actually write a statement of advice or a credit proposal that reflects what the customer actually wants to know, whilst at the same time complying with your obligations. So our typical statement of advice is 10-to-12 pages.

Fraser Jack: 00:32:45 So we’ve dipped into cashflow so far. Are you providing SOAs for cashflow? And-

Vince Scully: 00:32:50 No. Sorry. Generally no. So if we go back to the websites, we start off with the Money Personality Test. And then we have a thing we call the Financial Freedom Factor, which is a... it’s a tool which takes the member through the eight steps in our advice process. And those eight steps are: spend less than you earn, build an emergency stash, pay off your debts, prepare for the unexpected, which is about insurance. Get your super sorted. Get your paperwork straight. Then buy and pay off your home. And invest your surplus. They get a score on each of those eight steps. Then it takes them through a whole series of exercises or tips to improve their score.

Vince Scully: 00:33:30 Through that process, they will then identify the gaps. So working through preparing for the unexpected, they will obviously answer the question, “No, I don’t have income insurance.” And then we’ll provide them, direct them to some content that says, “Well, this is what it is. This is how it works. This is why you need it.” That will then lead them to schedule a meeting with their Sherpa or advisor.

Vince Scully: 00:33:55 This is part of the cost effectiveness. By the time a member clicks on that button saying, “I want help with income protection,” they’ve actually made a buying decision in their head. They’ve recognized that this is a gap in my money structure that I need to find out more about and do something about. So the advice around that then, isn’t a technical exercise, it’s not a half an hour lecture on what insurance is, you’re moving straight to a fulfillment exercise in helping the member understand how much they need and the way to do that. So it’s a fulfillment and handholding exercise.

Vince Scully: 00:34:35 So that when you get to the point where the insurance company comes back and says, “Yep, we can cover that at standard rates, Fraser, but we’re going to give you an exclusion on your left shoulder.” Left most people’s devices... most people left to their own devices, faced with that decision, would go, “Oh, that sounds a bit hard. Do I really want to do this?” Whereas if you’ve got a empathetic advisor in that process, you can explain what it really means and why it is or isn’t a big deal.

Vince Scully: 00:35:05 We can easily train our computer to say, “If you’re 32, a schoolteacher, earning $80,000, single, no kids. This is how much you need. This is the product you should have.” That’s an analytical problem that the computer can solve. But what it can’t solve is that last bit and that’s why you need the human in the exercise.

Fraser Jack: 00:35:25 Great. So you’ve got advisors, humans, you call them Sherpas, in an office where people can call in and talk to them?

Vince Scully: 00:35:39 That’s right. So all of our interactions with our members are online and that’s either telephone, email or videoconference, depending on the nature of the session. Quite often, in a couple, they might be in separate locations, so they might be at... each of them at their own office at lunchtime, so we’ll have a three-way. But we don’t do house calls and we don’t have people come and visit us.

Vince Scully: 00:36:09 That’s part of that being able to deliver this cost-effectively. It’s also what people are wanting. People don’t want to schlep across town and take time off from work to go and visit their advisor anymore. And they certainly don’t want us to come and visit their house. That was important 20 years ago and probably is still important for older couples with retirement savings.

Vince Scully: 00:36:32 So if you’ve got a 65-year-old couple with a million dollars in their super, they need a bit more loving and they will appreciate the quarterly portfolio review. Or many of them will. As much to feel confidence that they’re being looked after and they get a cup of tea when they turn up.

Vince Scully: 00:36:52 So it’s about suiting the right audience. But for that millennial, Gen X cohort-

Fraser Jack: 00:36:59 The four million households?

Vince Scully: 00:37:01 The four million households. That’s not what they want. And it’s expensive. So let’s take out the stuff that doesn’t matter and costs money, and deliver the stuff that does matter. I can tell you that there are very few people who I’ve ever seen, who actually say, “You know, Vince? I’d really love a 50-pages SOA.” Most people don’t know or care what a SOA is. They want their problem solved. And we need to solve that problem in a way that they understand and feel comfortable with. And that we comply with our legal obligations.

Fraser Jack: 00:37:32 Yeah, so you’ve got a monthly membership and so it’s obviously, it’s always ongoing fee arrangement. Is that how [crosstalk 00:37:39]?

Vince Scully: 00:37:39 Yep. It’s technically not an ongoing fee arrangement, because it’s technically not for a financial service. But we do include it in our FTS. And that sort of comes back to looking at the way we charge. Everything we do has got a fixed fee associated with it. That fee is either paid directly where there’s no commissions, or deducted... it’s not paid out of the commission, where there is a commission. If the commission happens to be more than the fee, we will rebate that fee to the member.

Fraser Jack: 00:38:11 Okay.

Vince Scully: 00:38:12 So that means that, although we don’t satisfy the Corporations Law definition of independent, we will get paid exactly the same, no matter how much you buy or who you buy it from.

Fraser Jack: 00:38:25 Yeah. I’m just thinking-

Vince Scully: 00:38:26 And that is important.

Fraser Jack: 00:38:27 I’m just thinking if I was to come in as the consumer into this experience, I’m really getting the budgeting, the cashflow, the controlling what I can control, getting understanding. At the same time, you’re getting all the know-your-clients stuff you need to have.

Vince Scully: 00:38:40 That’s right. And the member’s doing that themselves as they answer these questions on the website.

Fraser Jack: 00:38:45 Yeah. And then we go through the Financial Freedom Factor quiz. Basically, I can do that at my own pace, can’t I?

Vince Scully: 00:38:52 Correct.

Fraser Jack: 00:38:52 So I can very well, if doing X, Y, Z is going to cost me blah, well, I’ll push that off for a couple of months.

Vince Scully: 00:39:00 Yep. And a lot of these steps as you go through them. In fact, up to step six, you can almost do it without it affecting your daily budget. So you can sort your super out. There’s four things that you do in your super. You round it all up, you put it in the right fund, you make sure it’s invested in the right thing, and you keep your hands off it. If every 25 year old did that, which costs them nothing out of their day-to-day pocket, they will have a much better retirement, without giving up any more up-to-date, just do those four things.

Vince Scully: 00:39:33 Similarly with insurance. Most 28 year olds are paying for insurance that they don’t know about or don’t understand. By reviewing that, you can usually get a better answer and it will be largely paid for out of their super fund at probably very little more than they’re having taken out of their super fund today for stuff they don’t even know about.

Vince Scully: 00:39:57 So most of those steps can be completed without affecting your day-to-day spending. It’s just about providing the right environment and the right impetus to actually do it.

Fraser Jack: 00:40:11 So Vince, I’m thinking you’ve put a hell of a lot of work and process into this and automation. How long have you been working on it and where do you see it heading over the next couple of years?

Vince Scully: 00:40:25 The journey really started... we put the license application in, in 2014. So our license was issued late 2014. We had a launch in early 2016 where we started with a freemium model, like LinkedIn, where you got so much for free and then you had to upgrade to get the rest of it. And we struggled to get traction with that. That it was difficult to get the upgrade, that people didn’t really appreciate what the upgrade gave them.

Vince Scully: 00:40:57 So we rejigged all of that and relaunched in mid-2017, really ‘17, I think, with a Netflix model, like a 30-day free trial. And that’s been working so much better. We’re about to launch version three in the next couple of weeks, which just makes those journeys much clearer.

Vince Scully: 00:41:19 So whether you’re coming in as a... whether you’ve got a budget problem, whether you’re coming in as a first home buyer, whether you... what that journey from day one is. So that’s the important part of that journey.

Vince Scully: 00:41:31 So it is clearly a volume game. We will do about $1.2 million in revenue for the year just ending, ending tomorrow. That’s sort of just breakeven, so we’ve now clipped over that point where the large fixed costs of delivering this exercise are being covered and we’re now on that growth trajectory.

Vince Scully: 00:41:57 So I’d like to see this at 30,000 members within the next few years. That’s a good sized business.

Fraser Jack: 00:42:02 Wow. 30,000 members.

Vince Scully: 00:42:05 Just going back to that market that we targeted, so people that are under 45, earn average or above incomes, have less than $100,000 to invest, and earn salaries and wages. Important point is that that creates a cohort of members who have broadly similar requirements. They’re not all the same, but they’re more similar than they are dissimilar. You take away the complexities of family trusts, self-managed super funds, incorporated businesses and retirement. So if you take all of that complexity, that’s the stuff that adds the complexity in the traditional advice business.

Fraser Jack: 00:42:39 You mentioned before around the cost of acquiring members and cost of acquiring 30,000 members. How are you going about that?

Vince Scully: 00:42:47 It’s primarily driven out of Facebook. So the vast bulk of our marketing spend goes to Facebook, as in paid Facebook ads. Our goal is to be able to get a member for between $100 and $200 on average, which is on the lower side of what you would expect a fintech client acquisition cost. Because there’s a lot of work around the world which suggests that for true fintech business, it’s more like 400 to 500.

Vince Scully: 00:43:16 You’ll have seen HashChing for example have shuttered their original business, which was based on acquiring people who want a home loan today. Going though their public documents, their cost of acquiring a settled home loan was about $1,600. Which is fine for a mortgage broker, because there’s $3,000 of revenue on that loan probably.

Vince Scully: 00:43:38 So it’s horses for courses. So if you’re trying to find someone who wants a home loan today, you just need to spend a lot of money to get that higher revenue upfront. So we need to be in that lower level by acquiring someone who wants something different. That’s someone who’s not getting a lot of love from anyone else in the market, and they have a problem that needs to be solved. The problem is that it’s a problem they might not really know that there is in fact a solution to. Which is why Facebook is good because they’re not displaying signs of intent, which you need for Google. So to go to Google, they need to be searching something that relates to what you’re selling.

Fraser Jack: 00:44:15 Whereas on Facebook, they’re browsing.

Vince Scully: 00:44:17 Where on Facebook, we know their demographics. So we know if you want to find someone who’s got engaged, there’s 108,000 engaged women on Facebook in Australia. There are 120,000 weddings a year in Australia. So the first person that most women tell is Facebook.

Fraser Jack: 00:44:35 Yes, good point.

Vince Scully: 00:44:35 So you know exactly who they are. Sure, they cost a bit more, but you can identify them based on their demographics, age, and behavior rather than trying to look for intent.

Vince Scully: 00:44:47 Whereas I’m looking for someone who wants a home loan today, I can just buy Google ads.

Fraser Jack: 00:44:51 Yep. So tell me-

Vince Scully: 00:44:53 I’m going to struggle to outspend the CBA, but I know how to find them.

Fraser Jack: 00:44:55 Yeah, yeah, I imagine so. Now the Financial Freedom Factor, once people have gone through that, are they dropping off your membership? Or are they-

Vince Scully: 00:45:07 That’s part of what the current upgrade is about. The conversion from membership to additional services has been much higher than we expected. So people are moving from sort my budget out to buying a home loan to buying insurance to getting their super sorted, at a much higher rate than we had forecast. But those who don’t move on, have been disappearing at a higher rate than we expected.

Vince Scully: 00:45:30 So we’ve ended up with, rather than having a very large group paying $15 a month for a general membership and a smaller group with additional services, we’ve ended up with a much bigger group of people with the additional services. So-

Fraser Jack: 00:45:46 But they’d be more engaged, wouldn’t they?

Vince Scully: 00:45:47 They’re much more engaged, but obviously it’s not as... sorry, financially, it’s good because they bring earlier revenue. But what we’re doing as part of that current upgrade is increasing the tools and things to do in that period between, “Yeah, I found out where I am. I know what my score is out of a hundred,” and, “I need to do something about it.” To, “Actually, here’s how you do something about it.” And, “Here’s the journey.”

Vince Scully: 00:46:15 Because I think that’s the fundamentals to this. This is not about information. If you want information, you can go on YouTube and Google and get it. If you want to know how much you can put into super or review super funds, you can Google it, if you’re prepared to put the time and effort in to. But what people do want is a journey from where they are to where they want to be. That’s what we need to deliver as advisors.

Fraser Jack: 00:46:37 Exactly. You’re delivering it in a way, doing it as a group.

Vince Scully: 00:46:41 Yeah. It’s a largely a different market to what most of the 19,000 advisors are looking for. Because it’s an expensive exercise to set this up. We’ve spent well north of a million dollars to get here in various development costs, over yes, four years. Five years.

Fraser Jack: 00:47:03 Yeah. And also, so exciting future?

Vince Scully: 00:47:05 Yes. We’ve now turned the corner. These things always take longer than you think they will. But 2020 is definitely our year.

Fraser Jack: 00:47:13 Brilliant. How do you see it in two or three years from now?

Vince Scully: 00:47:18 That’s where we’d like to be, at that, getting towards that 30,000 number, which is a... that’s at a point where the business is listable. It’s of the size that you could sensibly list it.

Fraser Jack: 00:47:33 Talk to me about the size of the actual staff and that sort of stuff.

Vince Scully: 00:47:38 30,000 members, you need roughly one advisor and I use the word advisor very loosely there, which I’ll come back to in a moment, for about 800 members. And then obviously when you get a group of seven advisors, you need a team leader and when you get to... it’s a bit like the Flight Centre village model. Flight Centre’s grown because you can have a shop with two team members and a shop manager and then you have groups of shops and then you have regions et cetera. So it’s about building that up from there.

Vince Scully: 00:48:12 So at 30,000 members, it’s 40 advisors. And when we use the word advisors or Sherpas, they are a mixture of people who are authorized reps, authorized credit reps, and coaches.

Fraser Jack: 00:48:27 Thank you.

Vince Scully: 00:48:28 And some are potentially all three, so the goal is that if you hire someone who’s a qualified advisor, we will cross train them to be a broker. And vice versa.

Vince Scully: 00:48:39 So when we’re hiring, we’re really looking for softer skills, or what traditionally would be considered softer skills there, so empathy, coaching, and good telephone skills. So part of the automation and systemization and getting a cohort of clients who broadly look similarly, is that you don’t need the gray hair and experience and tech skills that an advisor like me would bring to a traditional practice, which is an expensive resource. A resource that forms relationships with clients and captures a large part of the revenue in the traditional models.

Vince Scully: 00:49:20 The traditional model, the eat-what-you-kill model, it’s really a group of individuals who happen to share an office. It’s not inherently scalable.

Fraser Jack: 00:49:29 Yeah. So your members have the relationship with the brand.

Vince Scully: 00:49:33 That’s right.

Fraser Jack: 00:49:33 When they ring up, they speak to Joan one day, then Bob the next day and-

Vince Scully: 00:49:38 Well, they’ll have an assigned Sherpa, so our phone system will look at the number that’s calling and recognize that as Fraser’s mobile and recognize that Fraser’s Sherpa is Maria. And put the call through to Maria wherever she happens to be logged in.

Vince Scully: 00:50:00 And that could be anywhere in the world where there’s internet. At the moment, everything happens in Sherpa HQ in Pyrmont. But it’s all been designed that we could do this entirely remotely.

Vince Scully: 00:50:11 As an industry, we have a huge amount of wasted resource, where we have highly trained, particularly female advisors. And there’s few enough of them. Who take time out to have kids maybe and working around family commitments doesn’t work particularly well in a traditional advice business where you have specific clients that need to be looked after.

Fraser Jack: 00:50:33 Yeah. We know that the working-from-home economy is growing and of course, the freelancer economy’s also growing with regards to people having that flexibility working at night, all those sort of-

Vince Scully: 00:50:44 That’s right. The tech’s all been designed to have people wherever. I think it’s important that they are people who have a shared experience with our members, so you wouldn’t outsource it to Bangladesh or the Philippines or Kathmandu because it’s about that empathy and shared journey that you do need to understand what’s going on. It does need to be local, but it doesn’t need to be in the office.

Vince Scully: 00:51:17 And everyone is on a salary or payment that’s not volume-dependent. That’s an important part of our ethos, that you’re on the journey and your remuneration is dependent on KPIs that are not sales-related. They are satisfaction related, they’re productivity related, but they’re not sales related.

Fraser Jack: 00:51:40 Yeah. So pretty massive couple of years ahead, it’ll be really interesting to see how your journey goes. It’s pretty exciting.

Vince Scully: 00:51:47 It is. It’s been a long journey of the broad concept that’s now over 10 years old, whilst the end result is the same, how we get here is quite a different approach. I guess it just proves that you can teach old dogs new tricks.

Fraser Jack: 00:52:05 Very good. Now, I thought I might quickly get our last little segment in, which is a quick tips. If you’re chatting to somebody at a BBQ or a social event and they are a consumer, thinking about getting advice, what quick tips to give to those consumers?

Vince Scully: 00:52:21 On the first point is to find an advisor that deals with people that look like you. That’s so important. Because most advisors have a niche that they’re particularly good at. Whether that’s retirement planning, whether it’s Centrelink, whether it’s insurance, whatever it is. So you need to find someone who looks like you and shares values, shares your values. Because if you don’t get those two right, it’s not going to be a long relationship. So that’s step number one.

Vince Scully: 00:52:49 Then understand what you want to get out of the advice relationship, or whether it’s a transaction. So a lot of those conversations begin, “I’ve got 10 grand, what should I invest in?” So the first question there is, “Actually, it’s not really about what you invest in. It’s about the behaviors and goals that go with that.” That you just can’t answer that question.

Vince Scully: 00:53:12 But you won’t get the right answer if you ask the wrong advisor. Choosing an advisor that looks like you and has shared values, and they should be able to articulate what those values are. Your advisor, this is not something you shop on price, it’s understanding what their offering is. Is that what you want and do they share your values? Do they deal with people that look like you?

Vince Scully: 00:53:35 So there’s no point in going into the Macquarie Private Bank if you don’t have a lot of money to invest. Because you’re not going to get the answer that you need.

Fraser Jack: 00:53:42 Yep. And what tips would you give to a, say advisor or younger advisor looking to get into the industry?

Vince Scully: 00:53:48 I think the biggest lesson that took me longest to learn was knowing when to say no. That when you open your practice for the first time and you’ve got the rent and you’ve got licensing costs and whatever, it’s very tempting to take on any client that walks in the door with a wallet and a pulse. And taking on the wrong client will ultimately cost you money, and B, make you miserable. So learning to say no to the wrong client is a very important discipline. It’s not easy and I’m as guilty as the next man of breaking my own rules. But it’s one that we have been religious about at LifeSherpa.

Fraser Jack: 00:54:28 Yeah, it’s an interesting time when you realize that, “Oh, maybe I’m not the best person for you. Try somebody down the road.”

Vince Scully: 00:54:34 Yeah. Don’t try and make a buck out of it, just because what goes around, comes around.

Fraser Jack: 00:54:41 Comes back to that aligning of values thing.

Vince Scully: 00:54:43 Yep. So we send a lot... so if someone comes in here with a million dollars and they want to buy physical shares, we’re not the advisor for you. If you’ve got a self-managed super fund, we’re not the advisor for you. If you want to come in and talk to your advisor once a month, we’re not the advisor for you.

Vince Scully: 00:54:59 But if you want a tailored solution for someone at your life stage and you’re 25 to 40, and you don’t have a lot of money to invest, that’s what we do.

Fraser Jack: 00:55:09 Yeah. I’m thinking convenience is one of the great values that somebody would like if they’re to be your client with.

Vince Scully: 00:55:15 Yeah, it’s convenience. That’s right. And one of the things that came out very clearly in our early research was the use of the word, wealth. Almost all of our potential audience said, “Well, we don’t like the word, wealth. We don’t have wealth. We have money. We have money problems. We might have assets. But wealth or rich is not words that resonate.”

Vince Scully: 00:55:36 And what have we done as an industry? Over the last 10 years, the whole industry’s rebranded as wealth management. I’m seeing fewer and fewer practices now putting the word wealth in their name. But you go and talk to insurance company, and they talk about wealth protection. Well, actually, what people want is lifestyle protection.

Vince Scully: 00:55:54 So you’ve got to tailor that message to your audience. I suspect the word wealth would resonate with people of us Baby Boomers.

Fraser Jack: 00:56:00 Maybe that demographic.

Vince Scully: 00:56:02 Yep. So as a Baby Boomer, I suspect it probably is a word that would resonate. Doesn’t resonate with me.

Fraser Jack: 00:56:08 That’s a good tip, though. If you’re after one of the four million households, then use the word money, not wealth.

Vince Scully: 00:56:14 That’s right. That’s where this whole concept of living the life you want with the money you have, comes from. That we’re not here, this is not a get-rich-quick scheme. It’s not about saying, “You shouldn’t earn more.” Or, “You shouldn’t invest to get a better return.” But if your goal is to get rich, you’re probably looking in the wrong place. That we will help you live the best life you can with what you’ve got, and help you get more. But if you’re looking for a quick road to wealth, if you want to buy 10 properties in 10 months, we’re not the advisor for you.

Fraser Jack: 00:56:48 Very good. Now, Vince, if you could go back in time and have your time over, what tips would you give yourself?

Vince Scully: 00:56:54 Wow. That’s a big interesting question. I spent a lot of time, you’ve probably heard about the FIRE movement, the financial independence retire early, which seems to be getting a lot of press. I retired twice in the last 15 years and I keep coming back.

Vince Scully: 00:57:15 So I think part of it is... I think if I realized earlier about what actually matters and that isn’t necessarily what people would traditionally refer to as a success, I think I would have had a better life. But regret’s never a good look. I think we regret more what we didn’t do than what we did do.

Fraser Jack: 00:57:38 Yeah, that’s right. So rather than just watching opportunities go past, have a go at them.

Vince Scully: 00:57:44 That’s right. I’m not quite sure I believe the fake-it-until-you-make-it approach, but it’s... and a story I tell in one of our videos about goals. 50 years, 50 years? 40 years ago, 40 years ago, I sat in the uni bar with a... sorry, 1983. That’s not quite 40 years, is it? We sat in the uni bar and set a goal of making 25 grand by 25, which was five years away for me at the time. And luckily we-

Fraser Jack: 00:58:13 You mean, saving 25?

Vince Scully: 00:58:15 No, no, as in earning.

Fraser Jack: 00:58:16 Oh yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Vince Scully: 00:58:16 25,000. My first job as a graduate paid 6,900 pounds, just to put things in perspective. 25,000 pounds would buy you a small flat in London, at the time. So it was a pretty aggressive goal. And it met all the things, it was specific, it was measurable, it was accountable, it was realistic, it was time-bound.

Vince Scully: 00:58:38 But I woke up on my 25th birthday having achieved it and went, “Is that it?” So it took 20 years after that to realize what caused that feeling of, “Is that it?” And it was really about emotional relevance, that the goal wasn’t emotionally relevant. So when you’re setting goals, know why you’re dong it.

Fraser Jack: 00:58:59 Yeah, I love that. It’s probably a pretty-

Vince Scully: 00:59:02 So we talk about smarter goals, where the ER is emotionally resonant. It took me 20 years to work that out.

Fraser Jack: 00:59:12 Yeah. To me, goals and values, that emotional side, the goal is the what you’re doing, but the why is that emotional side, be it I understand that.

Vince Scully: 00:59:22 Yep. So if you don’t understand how you will feel when you’ve achieved this goal or what you will do when you’ve achieved this goal, the goal is empty.

Vince Scully: 00:59:32 And I think getting back to our friend, Anthony Robbins, he has this saying that says, “Success without fulfillment is the ultimate failure.” Much as I balk at some of the stuff that Anthony Robbins says, that’s one that really resonates and one that we talk about quite a lot.

Fraser Jack: 00:59:50 Yeah, very good. Vince, we’re going to leave it there. Thank you so much for coming on the show. Appreciate you sharing your very unique business model-

Vince Scully: 00:59:57 Pleasure.

Fraser Jack: 00:59:57 ... which is very different to a lot of the business models out there and how you’re actually trying to bring the advice to the masses up in an area that where there’s not been a lot of work. So thank you so much.

Vince Scully: 01:00:08 It’s been my pleasure, Fraser. Look forward to seeing what’s happening.

Fraser Jack: 01:00:13 Okay, thank you.

Vince Scully: 01:00:14 Thanks mate, bye bye.

Fraser Jack: 01:00:15 If you haven’t already, I’d love you to subscribe to the podcast on your podcast platform of choice. And to continue the conversation, head over to our social media channels. We’ll catch you next time.


Disclaimer: This document is a transcription obtained through a third party. There is no claim to accuracy on the content provided in this document, and divergence from the audio file are to be expected. As a transcription, this is not a legal document in itself, and should not be considered binding to advice intelligence, but merely a convenience for reference.