Intro: 00:00 This episode was recorded live at United, the 2019 AFA conference in Adelaide. The Association of Financial Advisors is the association of choice for financial advice professionals and empowers them to transform the lives of Australians through quality financial advice. For more information, check out afa.asn.au.
Fraser Jack: 00:21 Welcome to the Goals Based Advice Podcast, where I have conversations with amazing people who are doing different things in the world of financial advice. I’m your host, Fraser Jack, I want to thank you so much for tuning in and listening today. Coming at you live from the Association of Financial Advisors Conference in Adelaide, South Australia. And I want to thank our sponsors today, Advice Intelligence, Oh My Pod! podcasting editing, and the Association of Financial Advisors. I’m very, very lucky to be joined with one of the keynote speakers for the final keynote of the day and also the first session tomorrow morning. I don’t know how you ended up with that one. The amazing Michelle Hoskin. Welcome.
Michelle Hoskin: 01:01 Hi.
Fraser Jack: 01:01 Thanks for coming on the show.
Michelle Hoskin: 01:02 You’re very welcome.
Fraser Jack: 01:03 Do you want to give the listeners a very quick overview of you and what you’re doing at the moment?
Michelle Hoskin: 01:11 Yeah, no problems. I’ve coined the term Little Miss WOWW! I think predominantly because I’m not classed as an activational, motivational kind of crazy go-getting Brit who has the passion to believe that I actually can change the world, the financial services sector globally. So I run a business called Standards International, which whilst being a UK-based business, has been set up and designed really to offer a global support network for financial advisors.
Fraser Jack: 01:43 Well, the name International gave that away.
Michelle Hoskin: 01:45 Yeah.
Fraser Jack: 01:46 Little Miss WOWW!, I think you might be the only Little Miss WOWW! on the agenda today.
Michelle Hoskin: 01:50 I think so.
Fraser Jack: 01:51 Yeah. That’s a pretty fantastic job title.
Michelle Hoskin: 01:54 Well, I’m slightly disappointed. When I went to get my mic for the session, I’ve got this necklace that spells WOWW! With an exclamation mark on it and he’s like, “The necklace is going to have to come off.” I’m like, “What do you mean the necklace has to come off, it’s like my trade statement.” So it’s gone.
Fraser Jack: 02:08 Wow. So you’re on the stage un-badged.
Michelle Hoskin: 02:11 Yeah.
Fraser Jack: 02:12 Now, tell us, how did you mistakenly fall into/your journey towards becoming Little Miss WOWW!?
Michelle Hoskin: 02:20 Oh my god. So, I first set up a consultancy business in financial services when I was 19. 41 now, although feel after jet lag probably about 60, and I was working in retail at the time when I first moved to London from Nottingham, and I got chatting to some girlfriends and really just telling them how much I hated my job and I’d left home and I was all by myself and little miss, my life is woe. And they said to me, well there’s three financial advisors in a network called [inaudible 00:02:53] that are looking for a PA, a secretary.
Michelle Hoskin: 02:56 I said to her straight out, “I’ll tell you now, I’m going to be the world’s worst PA. I’ll never do as I’m told and I’ll think I know better.” So they hired me and three years later I’d literally transformed their businesses from being successful to super successful and I did it as a female in financial services, which at the time was just totally an anomaly. If you weren’t a financial planner or an advisor, and you were female, you must be a secretary. But actually what I’d created was this approach to running a financial services practice which was based on common sense, just good structures, processes, and before I knew it I was on stage, I’d written a book, and I had six members of staff.
Michelle Hoskin: 03:40 So, I started as effectively a secretary, a personal assistant, and here I am in Adelaide 21 years later with a crazy name of Little Miss WOWW!, and my mum and my dad, my grandma, thinks I still do a paper round. I mean they have no idea what I do. So yeah, so it’s just as everyone falls into the sector, I just happened to have a girl talk one particular day over a coffee and here I am.
Fraser Jack: 04:06 So take me back to that moment because that’s really interesting. You’re, yes, you said a female in a male-dominated industry at the time, it’s getting a lot better now obviously, but not only that, you’re a young female that had never been in that industry before and you walked into that business and obviously you could see that many things needed to be changed and the fresh eyes approach. How did you go about then convincing the old blokes that used to work there, I’m making assumptions here-
Michelle Hoskin: 04:32 Yeah, they were old blokes.
Fraser Jack: 04:35 How did you then go about convincing the old blokes that they needed to change?
Michelle Hoskin: 04:38 I think if you’d have met me at eight years old, I’m probably no different now than I was when I was eight years old. So my parents say to me now, “You’ve never been any different, you would talk to anybody, if someone looked ridiculous in an outfit you’d tell them,” and I think one of the gifts that my parents gave me was independence, say what you think, say how you feel, if you see it say it, and just be direct.
Michelle Hoskin: 05:03 My dad’s a straight talking Englishman and I think they’re the qualities that I just kind of picked up as I go along. So yeah, they were three old guys who... the only other women in their life that told them what to do was their wives, and I just kind of worked on the basis that if I nagged them so much they would just do as I said, and they did.
Michelle Hoskin: 05:21 And in fact, I think ultimately you have to also remember that they were paying me to tell them. So I think one of the frustrations that a lot of my clients have is that I’ll go in and really say, “You need to be sorting this, this, this, and this out.” Their general managers and practice managers say to me, “We’ve been telling them that for years.” I say, “Yeah, but the difference is they’re paying me to tell them. You’re just part of the fixtures and fittings.”
Michelle Hoskin: 05:44 So yeah. Just the directness, I’m a very straight-talking, and I do have to kind of curb that a little bit because when I wear my Dr. Martens and my skinny jeans and I’m on stage, the guys are like, “Oh my god, who is this, she’s going to kick her head in.” So I think it’s just confidence. I’m just brimming with it, and I love what I do. So I just told them like it was.
Fraser Jack: 06:08 Fair enough. And also, what struck me about this conversation is the next step of actually doing. So you were actually doing the implementing. So you were talking to them about what they need to do. They say, “Yeah, okay, it sounds okay.” But you actually then implemented, whereas they may have not.
Michelle Hoskin: 06:22 Yeah. I mean they wouldn’t have. The challenge that... I mean I was chatting to somebody earlier. The challenge that we have in financial services currently is that financial advisors generally make really good money. Doing a great job for clients but running a mediocre business. They can still make really good money. So the biggest challenge that I have personally within the sector and within my business is we can see from 1000 miles the things that they can do to be more organized, be more efficient, be more effective, but many of the wrong type of clients for us will say, “Yeah, but we’re all right. We don’t need to do that stuff that you’re telling us.”
Michelle Hoskin: 06:58 So I’m like, “Well, no, you don’t, but it will make you more organized here.” “But we’re making good money being organized, I’ll just buy more staff.” So the thing that allowed me the opportunity to then go and do it for them and they welcomed me to do it was because what I sold to them was freedom from the ties of their day-to-day. So they could go and play more golf and spend more time with clients, and actually enjoy the life that they designed so often for other people. So I played on the kind of freedom card, but yeah. I’m a doing kind of girl, I rolled my sleeves up and then the results spoke for themselves really, and then the business grew.
Fraser Jack: 07:38 Fantastic. Now, fast forward to today, tell us about your business.
Michelle Hoskin: 07:43 Wowzers, so yeah. Financial services is a change in sector and one of the things that we recognize and I’ve seen over the 20 years that I’ve been doing this is that actually one of driving forces of change as we know from the Royal Commission here in Australia, that it’s actually qualifications is a big push. Now, ultimately if we think about it, what does that actually mean? Why are they pushing qualifications? They’re pushing qualifications and increased standards because they want to increase the quality within the profession; the quality of the way business is done, the quality of the people giving the advice.
Michelle Hoskin: 08:18 So I think what Standards International is doing is using and establishing frameworks of global best practice. So, we’re effectively a standards body, that’s what I created 12 years ago, to design and assess against and support financial planning practices to meet those global standards of excellence across their whole business. And that’s what we spend pretty much most of our day job doing. I get to do the great stuff like this, really, but the team that underpins and supports me being able to do this, of those assessors and trainers and consultants and coaches, that I’ll go into those businesses and under the umbrella of Standards International, they’re just making a difference. They are changing the world by helping the firms just be better, and really just be the best version of themselves as a practice, which in turn serves the clients that they then serve. So it’s this kind of this spider’s web.
Michelle Hoskin: 09:22 It keeps us busy, it keeps me out of trouble, and in beautiful cities like this.
Fraser Jack: 09:27 Or keeps you in trouble, one or the other.
Michelle Hoskin: 09:28 Probably.
Fraser Jack: 09:29 So how do we rate, then, as Australia? Like, looking at global standards, and where everybody else is around the world, where are we sitting?
Michelle Hoskin: 09:38 Yeah, so I think the UK follow Australia quite a lot, and it’s quite interesting because if you think about just the stuff that’s going on in Australia now, I was party to a round table in Miami in June, which was hosted by riskinfo, and there was a... we were talking about educational standards and what was going on.
Michelle Hoskin: 09:59 And you know, effectively, I hate to say it, but the UK kind of wimped out a little bit because what the Australian market has done is they’ve gone full front, they’ve gone right to the top end of educational standards, where we kind of only went halfway. Now, whether that’s right or wrong, I think what I think is happening in the Australian market is, it’s a bit harsh, actually, to go from zero to hero overnight. And that’s why we’re losing planners to suicide and stuff like this.
Michelle Hoskin: 10:29 But, I think in the main, the most exposure I’ve had to Australia was a few years ago when I did an eight state city tour around Australia and New Zealand, and what was quite interesting was how different sectors of Australia are, and obviously New Zealand is totally different again. But I feel that... Well, I think it’s interesting because you’re so sort of... the change is so dramatic, I was chatting to some of the paraplanners within Paraplanner Pulse and I said to them, “You know, you’ve got a great opportunity because this had not happened again.”
Michelle Hoskin: 11:05 So I think being a front leader in going all out for standards and qualifications and the role of a paraplanner, good on to Australia. They’re brave, as a kind of regulatory sector, but yeah. I’m excited about being here because I think some of the stuff that we’ve done in the UK we’ve tried to almost implement it too late. So I’ve been doing significant work in the paraplanner space in the UK but the problem is, they’re already a kind of established sector, where here they’re not.
Michelle Hoskin: 11:39 So we can actually get it right from the get-go here, but in the UK I’ve got to undo so much stuff. So I think Australia’s got an amazing opportunity to make its mark and actually put not necessarily just qualifications at the center of what they’re doing but actually quality, where other sectors have missed the opportunity to do that from the beginning.
Fraser Jack: 12:00 Yeah, well, thank you. And tell us about your practice, so you’re working with practices?
Michelle Hoskin: 12:06 Yeah.
Fraser Jack: 12:07 And associations and groups and larger groups and government?
Michelle Hoskin: 12:10 Yeah. So I’ve been on boards for Britain in particular, for the UK, and I’ve designed standards. So there’s ISO standards for financial planners, there’s BS standards, British standards, for financial planning firms.
Fraser Jack: 12:28 I’m glad you confirmed what BS stood for then.
Michelle Hoskin: 12:31 I have this problem every day. And then we’ve got sector standards like in the paraplanner standard. So yeah. So predominantly our clients are... they’re a particular type of firm, I would say. They’re go-getting, very ambitious, slightly more entrepreneurial than your traditional advisor, but they’re so clear of the vision they want to achieve in their business, their only challenge is actually they have no idea how to do it. And that’s when they’re so receptive to bring the likes of me and my team in, because they literally... Honestly, Fraser, they sit in front of me and say, “This is what I want to do but I have absolutely no idea how to do it.” And they listen to everything that we say because they’ve invited us in. So the job’s a gift, really. And it’s a great position to be in.
Fraser Jack: 13:21 So like that first job that you had where you actually put stuff in place, is that you also do now, you’re actually helping put that information in place and working with groups not just to give them advice but actually [inaudible 00:13:32]?
Michelle Hoskin: 13:32 Yeah, so in the UK, two years ago... Well, three years ago nearly, we launched something called the [Wow by Design 00:13:38] Development Program. And effectively, it’s a two-year coaching program, but it’s interesting because where we sit as a business, yes we are in that financial planning firm practice space, but we particularly target that kind of practice manager, general manager role, because they are the absolute unsung hero of a financial planning firm, and actually if you peel all the bits of the practice away that make us a financial planning business, these guys are businesses and what they need in actual fact is they need somebody to run their practice for them but that role is currently unrecognized, untrained, unqualified, and unappreciated.
Michelle Hoskin: 14:21 So, really, our... if you talk about who our absolute client are, [clienteers 00:14:26], it’s that practice manager role, that general manager who... So, we have the Wow Program, that takes them on this process of whoa to wow, and at the end of it’s hey graduate the program with a Certificate in Business and Operations Management, which is the world’s first to recognize that role, and it encompasses that whole transitional piece from taking a business that kind of knows what it’s doing but not really, right through to a business that’s got a clear vision, a strategy, the right people in the right jobs, and is nailing it.
Michelle Hoskin: 14:56 But it’s that role at the heart of that business that’s sort of keeping the heartbeat going. And that’s probably the thing I’m most excited about is give it 10 years, there’ll be lots of these people running around financial services that are ultimately running the show. And that’s that future change I think is going to happen.
Fraser Jack: 15:15 I love the fact that your business model now is designed for the target market of you when you first started, the young Michelle.
Michelle Hoskin: 15:21 Yeah, totally. Because I didn’t know what I was doing. I kind of made it up as I went along. I mean genuinely. But for whatever reason I was kind of right. But I genuinely had no idea what I was doing, just logic presented itself that that wasn’t right so you did that, and if you want to achieve that well you need to do this. And I’ve effectively built a business around my unique set of skills, as my dad would say.
Fraser Jack: 15:46 Well, I think you and everybody else that’s built a financial advice business and have never done it before, no one knows what they’re supposed to be doing, they just go along and think they’re doing the right thing and most of the time it turns out okay so they do it.
Michelle Hoskin: 16:08 Kind of right.
Fraser Jack: 16:08 Yeah. So I don’t think there’s too many rules or best practices, except for what you’re setting now, the standards that you’ve created.
Michelle Hoskin: 16:08 Yeah. And they’re great. It just takes the thinking out of how to run a great business in financial services, and the future’s going to be very interesting and I think what we’ll see, and I’ve seen it already, well two elements of it, we’ve got business men and women who are not practicing advisors coming into our sector and setting up businesses, and they’re cleaning up. Because what they’re doing is they’re bringing all the best business practices to this sector and they’re running them like business people, not like financial planners and advisors. They’ve just got a totally different outlook to everything.
Michelle Hoskin: 16:44 And I also think with the plans to exit the sector, we’re going to lose thousands, I mean, Australia’s going to see a mass... there’s going to be thousands leave, retire, and just go, “Do you know what, sod this, this is not what I signed up for.” We’ve seen it in the UK, and yes you could argue that actually the cream of the crop stayed and the kind of chafe left, but I think that’s probably not quite the case. Australia, as did the UK, will lose some amazing financial advisors, and they’ll lose them not because of the qualifications change but they just did not have the structures and the environment and the business to support any change. It could have been anything, [inaudible 00:17:27].
Michelle Hoskin: 17:27 So I think the change is going to come when it’s forced, like we’re seeing it. So I try to force that change through shocking advisors into doing stuff before the regulator or whoever just comes and sideswipes them, and it’s heartbreaking.
Fraser Jack: 17:46 Yeah. Now, we see it certainly feels out there for the listeners of this show that the time frames in the amount of change that’s got to go on is quite short.
Michelle Hoskin: 17:54 Yeah.
Fraser Jack: 17:55 Talk to us about... You’ve got a two year program, talk about what happened in the UK, how long it took, how long it took to settle after all the change.
Michelle Hoskin: 18:02 Yeah. I mean I reckon you’ve got... I mean, without scaring the heebie-jeebies out of the sector, I think you’ve got to go for 10 years, in truth. And that’s because, I’ll give you an example. So the deadlines are needed because if there were no deadlines everybody would rest on their laurels. So everybody needs a deadline and do you know what, if it was two years, five years, 10 years, everyone would still be in the same panic mode. And realistically, even if it was five years, they’d leave it to year four to do anything about it.
Michelle Hoskin: 18:31 So the timeframe is irrelevant, really. What is important though is the whole piece around what you’ll do in that... So I’ll give you an example. So, in the UK we obviously had RDR, and one of the areas of RDR was to make sure that the financial planning practice and advisory practice had defined and redesigned their client proposition. So the problem was that we had... I mean, we had quite a timeframe to do this but the sector kind of dived in and got all excited about client segmentation and exams. So what they did was, they almost crammed it in. Now, because they’d crammed it so in so quickly, they didn’t do a proper job. So for example, planners were designing their service proposition but almost in panic.
Michelle Hoskin: 19:22 So when it had settled and the regulatory kind of, the deadline had finished, what they realized they had was something that was actually not fit for purpose. It was fit for the job that it needed to do was to tick a box, but actually it was unsustainable and actually not that great. So even now, 10, 11 years later, we’re seeing firms having to redesign their business models, redesign their propositions, redesign how they’re charging fees, because actually they rushed it.
Michelle Hoskin: 19:52 So the firms that have truly nailed it are the firms that had done it already, the ones that had already got the qualifications, who had already started their client journey and mapped it out from the beginning correctly, and this is all because as planners they put the wrong client first. Financial planning practices have to remove the client from the center of their universe and actually put themselves and their business at the center of their universe because a happy business and a happy team and a happy planner makes happy clients, not the other way around.
Michelle Hoskin: 20:28 And this is just because we’ve been educated incorrectly about, you know, you look at any speaker, any webinar, anything, it’s all about how clients are so important and clients are the most important thing and everyone should make sure that the client comes first. I disagree 100%. More than anything. The most important client, first and foremost, is themselves. If they don’t look after themselves as a planner, through their education and their health, it’s game over. And if they don’t take care of their business and their team, the clients are just going to get... it doesn’t work the way around, we’ve got to get our priorities right, and I think those that got their priorities right in the beginning. You know, RDR and the Royal Commission is like, we’ve got it. We’ve got it covered. Because I focused on my education years ago, when these guys are trying to sell products to clients I recognized the fact that I needed to develop myself.
Michelle Hoskin: 21:21 And those guys are just... they’re just, it’s like water off a duck’s back, it won’t affect them to the degree that it’s affected so many. Because the priorities were the wrong... they had their priorities the right way around.
Fraser Jack: 21:31 Yeah, wow. That’s a wow moment, thank you.
Michelle Hoskin: 21:34 Yeah, it’s all right.
Fraser Jack: 21:34 Now tell us, you’ve just flown out to Australia, from the summer of the UK.
Michelle Hoskin: 21:40 How could you do that to me. We have no summer ever. It’s the hottest summer on record and I’m here in the rain.
Fraser Jack: 21:49 Yeah, very good. The next few days are going to be sunny I’m sure. Tell us why you’re here.
Michelle Hoskin: 21:54 I’m here because... Well, I bugged [Mark Bylum 00:21:58] for so long to get me over, but it eventually worked. I think I’m here because I can see that we are... and it’s almost the gift to me, which is we are literally starting with a blank sheet of paper. And I’ve never had to privilege before of going into a part of the sector, globally, that has got it all to gain. There’s lots of countries in the world, most of them, some excite me, most don’t. It just depends on where they’re at.
Michelle Hoskin: 22:29 But I actively pursued trying to get here because I could see the potential of what you could do if we got it right from the beginning. And it literally is like, we’ve got a plot of land and let’s build the best house on it. And I’ve been chatting to the guys, Natalie, within Pulse, and I’m just so excited for them. And it’s worth the trip, it’s worth leaving my family for two weeks and being on another planet because that’s what it feels like, I’ve been so far away, but it’s worth every mile, every mile.
Fraser Jack: 22:59 Fantastic. And you’ve got a couple of presentations, one this afternoon to deliver, and another one tomorrow morning to The Paraplanning Network. Do you want to talk to us about those presentations and give us a sneak peek into the main points?
Michelle Hoskin: 23:11 Yeah. I mean, the main point of today really is that it’s... these challenges are going to keep coming but what’s most important is we have to get our thinking right because I actually think that if it’s not the Royal Commission it’ll be something else, and then it’ll be something else. And as we heard earlier, there’s a train track and that train’s going to keep coming.
Michelle Hoskin: 23:32 So actually, the only thing that I want these guys to leave with, if I’m being totally brutal is, I want them to get their thinking right that they can overcome whatever it is thrown at them, in whatever way, in whatever quantity, to know that let’s stay focused on what we’re actually trying to do, and why we came into this profession in the first place, and lock on to that.
Michelle Hoskin: 23:56 So it’s quite motivational and go-getting. Tomorrow, we’re going to be talking to the paraplanners in a breakfast, so obviously within Paraplanner Pulse, they’ve got these regions and these regional chairs. So we’re hosting a breakfast and what’s kind of sad about that, whilst it’s a great thing, I mean there’s only like 25 booked on it and we estimate that there’s about 5000 paraplanners in Australia. Well, where are they all? Like, the planners won’t let them out of their businesses, it’s incredible the fact that they... I mean, they don’t yet see it. It’ll come, but there’s 25 booked on the breakfast yet there’s 5000 in the sector.
Michelle Hoskin: 24:38 I mean I know Australia’s a big place and I know there’s flights and accommodation and stuff, but goodness. So tomorrow’s paraplanning and then I’m doing a meet the innovators, experts round table, and then I’m going to be talking about how to... You know, if you’re thinking of exiting and selling your business, how to get more bang for your buck because there’s going to be a lot of exit, and part of the panic is, well, this is my life, like I can’t just let my clients go to any old person, I’ve got to make sure that they go to a safe place.
Michelle Hoskin: 25:10 And brutally, I want to be rewarded for 30 years worth of hard graft, never seeing my kids, working my absolute backside off, and they deserve it. So we’re going to be talking about how to... without sounding brutal and motivated by money, how to actually capitalize on their business that they’ve spent their whole lifetime building and they deserve every single penny as well that they get paid for it. And then I fly over to Sydney for MDRT Global, I’m speaking at MDRT Global, and then I’m going home.
Fraser Jack: 25:46 Well, fantastic, amazing trip. Now, if you come back in five years time, how do you see us? How do you see the profession changed in that time?
Michelle Hoskin: 25:56 Well, I hope that we’ve had no more suicides. I mean, if that number stops, because actually we’ve got the mindset right, I mean that will be an incredible achievement. I mean, and I think that’s the first one that springs to my mind. We have to stop this craziness that’s going on.
Michelle Hoskin: 26:14 I would like paraplanners, I’d like to see paraplanning a parallel sector, a profession within its own right, and I want it to be seen as not, well I’m a paraplanner so I’m a failed financial advisor, I’m a paraplanner and that financial advisor better watch his back because actually I’m equally if not more so qualified and capable than you are, but we just work together. So I’d love to see that.
Michelle Hoskin: 26:40 And I would love to see the AFA and whatever partnerships they forge with other profession bodies, kind of one voice. I would like to see that they’ve... I always say they bashed their heads together and they figured it out. Because the sector needs them. Like, there’s guys out there and girls out there in these offices across Australia, and they’re sad and they’re lonely and they are absolutely scared to death. So I think if we can unite in the truest sense and create this global position of global professionalism, and Australia’s part of that, you know I’ll be dead happy.
Michelle Hoskin: 27:23 But one of the things I said to the team actually just before I left, because I have these realization moments all the time and I said to the team, “You know what guys, the changes that we are talking about that I will take to the stage and discuss and share with the audience, the likelihood is that we won’t ever see the impact of that message until outside of our own lifetimes.”
Michelle Hoskin: 27:48 It took me a little while to realize that that’s what I needed to say but it’s true. Like, I know that the stuff we’re talking about, me, I’m talking about, the messages that I share, I am 10 years before my time and I’ve always been 10 years before my time. But I’ve kind of made peace with that, and in truth, talking very openly, my business doesn’t turn over lots and lots of money, because effectively I’m selling something that they don’t know they need yet.
Michelle Hoskin: 28:21 So the ones that adopt the principles and the services that we provide, are themselves 10 years ahead of their time and can see that what I’m actually talking about is right. And the majority, sadly, don’t see it yet until it’s literally staring them in the face. By that point, I might even be dead and gone myself, who knows, right? But yeah. We’re ahead of our time, so if I came back I would love to see that Australia in a way have sort of listened to what I’m sharing and don’t fall behind and actually take their rightful place as the leader in the global sector, and show the rest how it needs to be done.
Fraser Jack: 29:07 Yeah. I think that certainly, as you said, the professions having the same voice, or the same message at least, and creating that environment where in five years time it is the leading standard-
Michelle Hoskin: 29:21 Well, ultimately, there’s enough challenges from the stuff I’ve read and the posts and the comments on articles about kind of Royal Commission and the changes, it’s even more heartbreaking that we have... because we have different bodies, that we even have to make the planners choose. That’s not an easy decision for them to make. It’s like, well it’s this body or it’s this body. And actually, they don’t know the difference between the bodies. So in a complicated environment as it is, we’re giving them more issues by making them choose again which side are they on? There’s no such thing as sides, it’s just one body versus another, and we have the same in the UK and it’s brutal, it’s absolutely brutal.
Michelle Hoskin: 30:04 But we need to stand as one and that’s not just bodies within Australia, the UK need to stand at the side of Australia. Australia against the States. We need to be globally united, not just united in Australia. And that’s kind of where I see my role and what I’m trying to do by going to all these countries, sharing the same message, talking about global standards, is that if they use these standards to hook into, we’ve all got one message, and that’s that quality is the key to unlocking professionalism globally. Not necessarily qualifications.
Fraser Jack: 30:41 Fantastic. Thank you very much. Now if somebody wants to continue this conversation with you, how can they get hold of you?
Michelle Hoskin: 30:45 Well, they can obviously find me on all social media channels, I’m on Facebook, I’m on Instagram, as Little Miss WOWW!, I’m LinkedIn as Michelle Hoskin obviously. But just reach out, I mean I love nothing more than when I get messages on LinkedIn just to go this is what I’m doing, and I’ll always try and give a few pointers. We’ve got some webinars and stuff on YouTube. Just Google me. I seem to pop up everywhere.
Fraser Jack: 31:12 Okay, Google Little Miss WOWW!.
Michelle Hoskin: 31:13 With various different hairstyles, I must add. Sometimes there’s an old photo pop up of me being 30 and I look at it and think, “If only I still looked like that.”
Fraser Jack: 31:24 Yeah, they say you never look as good as you do now because whenever you look back you go, “I looked much better then.”
Michelle Hoskin: 31:29 Totally. My hair’s getting shorter and shorter.
Fraser Jack: 31:33 Fantastic. Thank you so much for coming on the show and sharing your insights and then giving us a sneak peek into what you’re going to be talking about before you talk about it.
Michelle Hoskin: 31:41 Yeah.
Fraser Jack: 31:41 Even though this will be-
Michelle Hoskin: 31:42 Later.
Fraser Jack: 31:43 Later. Yeah. Fantastic, thank you so much, good luck with the presentations and I look forward to watching them.
Michelle Hoskin: 31:49 Thank you, thanks for having me. Good work.
Fraser Jack: 31:49 Thank you.
Speaker 1: 31:51 If you haven’t already, I’d like you to subscribe to the podcast on your podcast platform of choice, and to continue the conversation head over to our social media channels. We’ll catch you next time.
Disclaimer: This document is a transcription obtained through a third party. There is no claim to accuracy on the content provided in this document, and divergence from the audio file are to be expected. As a transcription, this is not a legal document in itself, and should not be considered binding to advice intelligence, but merely a convenience for reference.